Dorman Battery Experiences

Just wanted to update since I've been monitoring the battery. Figured the summer heat and AC use might be hard on it so I ran a load test according to the hybrid assistant instructions. It's clearly not a new battery, but not quite on its last leg either. It has been giving 43mpg avg over 4k mi, with heavy AC use this summer. I also turned the AC on during the test, thus the rapid dip in charge.

 

Unfortunately the Dorman batteries have apparently not kept up in quality. Had one put in my Prius 2 and immediately started to get the high voltage leak error message. Within a year finally got to the point I was having to reset system on a daily basis. Local Hybrid guru said they stopped using aftermarket batteries and now install only new dealer supplied units. Dorman says they have a 3 year warranty but when I tried to return the battery they would only agree to replace it. At $500 labor it was not worth the gamble. Always was happy with them in the past but they were hard to deal with and in the end was stuck with a defective battery. Have had the new dealer battery in a month and it works great.

 

^^^this should be a sticky^^^

welcome!

sorry to hear about your poor experience. unfortunately, your guru is right, anything but new is iffy at best, and only worth trying if diy.

 

I not a pro when it comes to batteries, electricity, etc, but my theory is that the used batteries being rebuilt are reaching over 10 years of age. Their longevity just ain't there anymore. Many out there have been rebuilt several times over. In another 2 to 5 years, people like me will be buying new ones and the market again will be flooded with available first time rebuilt batteries.

 

Finally had that dorman battery replaced today by @TMR-JWAP. It was a 2014 remanufactured battery that lasted until now, and appeared to have all 28 modules from the same donor battery. Feels great to drive the car with strong battery. Thanks again!

 

Here's a bit of follow-up on that Dorman. It's serial # 02942 Built on 3/7/14. I think the PO thought it was installed in the car sometime in 2015. It has 27 modules date coded 29XE (October 29, 2003) and 1 module date coded 149O (September 14, 2013). After completing the swap, test driving and then re-installing the interior, we pulled the cover off the Dorman to see how many different years of modules it would have. A quick look and we thought it had all 28 matching with 29XE. I was stunned and actually looked at it again. I have no idea how we missed that one module that appeared to have no serial number. It was one the modules that has the serial number partially under the clamp crossbar. I didn't catch it until I was recording serial numbers for the capacity testing. All the modules had one end colored in with black marker. Except the new one. IDK how the heck we overlooked that also. It must have been some kind of eye game, as all three of us didn't catch it.

I did some minor disassembly and placed the module pack on the bench for initial discharge testing. I measure and record each module voltage prior to starting the initial discharge. I always discharge first to measure how much energy is stored in each module in the 'as removed from the car' condition. It gives a good indication of overall balance between modules. Afterwards, the modules were charged, then a discharge/charge cycle was performed starting at 530am this morning. Here's the results. The left table has the modules in order as installed in the pack, starting with block 1 (away from the ecu). The right table has the data rearranged with the modules sorted from lowest initial voltage to highest. The numbers under the discharge columns are mAh measured when discharged to 5.8v. This way, you can easily see how a modules voltage is not a sure indication of it's condition, or how many "units of energy" it can store. If one of the $399 "come to your house and fix your battery" Craigslist posters had "fixed" this battery, does anyone think the 149O module would have been replaced? Even with the highest voltage (7.72), it's a brick, barely better than the module that has the failed cell. I'd imagine 566E would have been replaced and then @Stimp would be given the car back. Guaranteed failure again within a month or two. Looking at the mAh values on the second discharge, there's nothing there to brag about. It's showing it's age. Quite a wide range of capacities, even though they were all charged identically. Nothing unexpected. We'll see how it looks after more cycles. I have some time available to invest in this, so maybe after several cycles and data, I'll replace the 2 obviously BAD modules and then hit it with a full prolong sequence and then check the capacities again. It will be interesting to see what capacity can be recovered. There will be no further data for module 566E. I've already disconnected it from the chargers. That puppy was swelling like crazy trying to take a charge....I'll probably disconnect the 149O (2013) module after tonight's cycle. No sense wasting electricity on it.





Notice the module in middle doesn't have serial number in same place as others. Stimp, how the heck did we not notice, lol? You can see some of the serial number between the green temp sensor wires. A common Gen 3 location.

 

Out of curiosity, approximately how long would you guess it takes to go through this assessment process for a battery pack?

 

Just off the top of my head I would say 30 minutes or less to disassemble the battery, get it set up on the test bench and connect all the leads. The first discharge/charge cycle is stared and then I just document all the data the next morning (and start a new cycle) when I get ready to leave for work (~5:30 am). I'll do two cycles a day. I have no 100% set in stone number of cycles to perform, but I'll usually continue doing them as long as they keep showing improvement. There's definitely some patterns, as cycle 5 (or 6?) typically shows a drop in capacity, and then the next one shows a big jump, almost like a dam breaking loose. Sometimes on weekends I may do 3 cycles in a day, as I'm able to be there when one completes. I would say each cycle averages 9 hours. (4 to 4.5 hours for discharge if 6000mAh capacity and using a 1.5A discharge rate + 20 minutes rest + 4 to 5 hours if charging at 2A rate, using 8200 mAh max cutoff)

In the big scheme of things, it only takes the initial discharge and one cycle to eliminate 90% of bad blocks. The remaining cycles are just to see how much capacity can be restored. Sometimes one will fail during the later cycles or show only minor improvement and not be worth any more effort. Into the core pile it goes....

I have yet to build any batteries using these modules. They are strictly being tested and documented for eventually selling on ebay, etc to help DIYers. I plan to stick with late model wrecks (2015-now) as my source for building batteries. I suppose, at some point, I may build a battery using them, if someone really wants me to go that route for them. One thing I could guarantee, is that they would probably be better than 99% of the similar "used module" rebuilds out there.

 

Here's today's update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and three follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
Many modules are still recovering capacity by hundreds of mAh, but 572E looks like it's struggling and may be near the end of it's rope. Another potential candidate for the core pile. I'll give it another chance or two.

 

Here's today's update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and five follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
Many modules are still recovering capacity by hundreds of mAh, even 572E has come up by 1000mAh over the last 2 cycles. I looked back through my data and realized 572E had a charge cycle that stopped about 2000mAh early, probably due to a false delta V trigger. This is what caused the low discharge reading on the fourth discharge and why it's trailing behind the others. I'll think I'll keep it cycling for a bit and see where it ends up. Most likely the module is fine and will recover like the others.

 

Here's today's update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and seven follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
All modules are still recovering significant capacity. The higher capacity modules improvements are slowing and the lower capacity modules should start catching up as more cycles are performed.
I expect to see, very soon, a dip in capacities, followed by a good jump. I've added a row at the bottom showing the average capacity of each column, with 566E and 502E removed from the calculation.

I've highlighted "green" modules/capacities that have exceeded 5800 mAh.

80% of rated capacity would be ~5200mAh.
85% of rated capacity would be ~5525 mAh.
90% of rated capacity would be ~5850 mAh
95% of rated capacity would be ~6175 mAh




.

 

This thread makes it easy to see why a company like Dorman would not spend the time to properly recondition a battery. For them, time is money. They would need to sell at a loss to recoup labor costs.

 

I wouldn't say Dorman isn't doing it properly at all.
They have rooms full of machines that can do it much faster than the home hobbyist.

The reality is everyone is dealing with used batteries. Trying to predict how a used battery is going to be a year from now is a huge gamble.

Take a look at the equipment in this video.
This is what CarDone uses for batteries.
CarDone is similar to Dorman.

If these guys can't get used batteries to last, there is no way the home hobbyist or Craigslist guy is going to have some magic to make a better pack..

 

ericbecky,

Fully agreed. It's no different than any other high volume automated procedure. It's all about the equipment and process. A hobbyist could build a car in his garage if desired. Ford/GM could build a million or more in the same period of time. There's proper facilities, technology and equipment for every process. It just depends on scale. These companies wouldn't be in business if they weren't doing something right and filling a need.

The problem I'm seeing is the lack of attention to detail. Small parts missing, cooling air flow path foam inserts ripped off and not replaced, temp sensors not fully mounted and falling off, etc. That's where I see their process having weaknesses. Every company and individual makes decisions due to financial constraints. A company is in business for one reason, and one reason only....to make money. That means efficiency. Employees have a big impact on that. A person who is interested in what they're doing, and has a bit of passion for doing it right, will do a better job every time.

 

Here's today's update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and nine follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
Modules are still recovering significant capacity.
Had a storm induced power blip during the charge portion of the last cycle. Some chargers stopped their cycle, most carried on unfazed and one bricked a channel, losing its readings, but went back to normal after cycling power to the charger.

I've added a row at the bottom showing the average capacity of each column, with 566E and 502E removed from the calculation.

I've highlighted "green" modules/capacities that have exceeded 5800 mAh.

80% of rated capacity would be ~5200mAh.
85% of rated capacity would be ~5525 mAh.
90% of rated capacity would be ~5850 mAh
95% of rated capacity would be ~6175 mAh

I'm glad to see they're still showing significant improvement each cycle. My condolences go out to anyone trying to do this with a single channel hobby charger. Even a single 4 channel charger would probably take over a month at 24/7 to do what is displayed below.

 

5/13/2019 update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and eleven follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
Modules are still recovering significant capacity. They're like energizer bunnies.
Had a storm induced power blip during the charge portion of cycle ten. Some chargers stopped their cycle, most carried on unfazed and one bricked a channel, losing its readings, but went back to normal after cycling power to the charger. The three channels that stopped the charge early had a bit over 2 hours of additional charge performed. I was occupied with other things and wasn't able to stop the additional charge when planned, so those 3 modules ended with higher total mAh charged than the others. That's in the notes under the spreadsheet. The module that was connected to the charger channel that faulted was just reset and had a new cycle started. That's why it's discharge is so low on #11.

I've added a row at the bottom showing the average capacity of each column, with 566E and 502E removed from the calculation.

I've highlighted "green" modules/capacities that have exceeded 5800 mAh.

80% of rated capacity would be ~5200mAh.
85% of rated capacity would be ~5525 mAh.
90% of rated capacity would be ~5850 mAh
95% of rated capacity would be ~6175 mAh

I'm glad to see they're still showing significant improvement each cycle. My condolences go out to anyone trying to do this with a single channel hobby charger. Even a single 4 channel charger would probably take over a month at 24/7 to do what is displayed below.

 

For comparison, the information below is from a battery pack removed from a 9k mile 2015 wreck. This pack was used to build a Gen 2 battery. It was installed in a fellow forum member's car in Savannah, Ga in April of 2017.

 

5/14/2019 update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and thirteen follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
We finally got the dip. Much later than expected, but the modules are still recovering. Energizer bunnies, indeed.
I wasn't able to start this evenings cycle until late due to a company golf outing. But yesterdays continue to look promising..
I've highlighted "green" modules/capacities that have exceeded 5800 mAh.
In the big picture, the test results of these 26 modules are on par with MUCH newer modules. I'm impressed...

80% of rated capacity would be ~5200mAh.
85% of rated capacity would be ~5525 mAh.
90% of rated capacity would be ~5850 mAh
95% of rated capacity would be ~6175 mAh

 

The module condition did not help the buyer because they were not fully reconditioned.

 

5/15/2019 update on the module cycling. This covers the initial discharge and fifteen follow-on full discharge/charge cycles.
566E and 502F are down for the count and will be cores.
We got another dip. Not unusual with this many cycles. #15 did it's discharge (a little dip) but the charge was stopped about an hour early. This was because I started the previous set of cycles late. The charge was still in progress when I needed to go to work this morning. Iwent ahead and stopped that cycle, recorded the data and started a new cycle. That's why #16 is lower. Nothing nefarious going on, they had all charged between 6100 and 6600 mAh instead of the full 8200.

It should be interesting where the next set of capacities end up, as they'll be back to normal cycle values...as long as there are no more storms or golf rounds to distract me.. This experiment should be drawing to a close soon.

I've highlighted "green" modules/capacities that have exceeded 5800 mAh.
In the big picture, the test results of these 26 modules are on par with MUCH newer modules. I'm impressed...

80% of rated capacity would be ~5200mAh.
85% of rated capacity would be ~5525 mAh.
90% of rated capacity would be ~5850 mAh
95% of rated capacity would be ~6175 mAh