New HV & 12v battery, dead CM, lifeless car

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by ipetakitty, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. ipetakitty

    ipetakitty Junior Member

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    Hello guys, I'm new to Prius and hybrids as a whole, though I do have experience wrenching on many other vehicles and DIY.

    My gf has this car (2006 ~233k miles) which had been sitting dead in her driveway for about 2 years. I elected to help get it going again.

    The last known symptoms before parking was Dash display lights out for a while, was then driving down freeway when a *beep* problem indication, red triangle and all indicators on right side of display illuminated, followed by loss of power, gradual deceleration until total stall. Was then able to restart it a few times and move short distance with little power before stalling again. Car towed home and sat for nearly 2 years since October 2016 (with a week interval of driving well, no dash light).

    Which brings us to the last couple months...

    We had the car towed to a local private toyota mechanic, who stated he was able to start it up and drive it around after charging the 12v battery, and that after running diagnostics there was a bad module. I picked up the car and drove it 15miles home (first time driving a Prius) the power seemed pretty good, not exceptionally weak, and the dash had been intermittent (seems to work better not in the heat of day).

    We surmised the combination meter needed repair, the HV battery and the 12V needed replacing and that should put us in the clear.

    Which brings us to present day (writing this post from a tow truck). THe HV battery was rebuilt using 2k1toaster's kit (newpriusbatteries) and the 12v replaced with a Bosch blue top 2 days ago. The car fired right up, including the unrepaired CM (first thing in the morning before heat), I drove the car around the block and the power felt great, the dash was displaying all information, even mpg calculations which were showing good readings too. I parked it, then we tried again in the afternoon, this time the CM was blank but the car still drove great, took it around for about 30miles. Parked and planned to take it in for emissions the next day (today)

    We arrived at the test center this afternoon in the heat of the day, everything (but the CM) was functioning fine, then as we were sitting in line a Problem message appeared on the screen and the check engine light came on, we proceeded forward and the power felt weak. We were unable to test due to the CE light (of course) and attempted to make it home but the power was weak and declining (characteristic to the first time this happened 2 years ago) ...the car stalled and was unable to even power off until I unplugged the 12v for a minute and then restarted, this reset the Ce light too, which returned immediately and power was weak. We repeated the stall/reset a couple more times, but the duration of effectiveness was getting shorter. Called AAA, used reset to drive car on and off ramp...

    Which brings us to the present moment. I know the CM needs to be repaired but I haven't seen a correlation with that and the car dying completely so I'm wondering what your thoughts are, I've done a lot of searching yet I'm at a bit of a loss, please help!
     
    #1 ipetakitty, Jul 14, 2018
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Test emissions will fail you for no dashboard/bad combo meter..

    You say many times about "weak". Talk to us in terms of what the hybrid battery charge level is doing on the mfd? Is it all blue or is it one purple bar a or no bars? Weak means nothing...weak engine... weak battery?

    If you did all this work on the car you must have a hybrid capable code reader? What are the codes? Nothing can be fixed till the codes are pulled.

    And the car will not shut off with a bad combo meter. Check engine light is probably from no engine oil in the engine. At that mileage it will eat alot of oil.
     
    #2 edthefox5, Jul 14, 2018
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  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    A car that's been sitting for 2 years can develop a lot of issue.

    1. CM - your GF should have taken care of this 2 years ago for free, under Toyota extended warranty. Warranty is now expired

    2. The "problem" with engine light is rare without additional lights, usually check engine is emissions related and won't cause "problem" to display

    I recommend you checking oil and all coolant levels (including the radiator). Since it's a serious enough malfunction to get your car into limp mode, I would not drive it until you check the codes to the car

    Is the water pump belt still there? I'm thinking you may have a cooling issue
     
    #3 JC91006, Jul 14, 2018
  4. ipetakitty

    ipetakitty Junior Member

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    Edthefox - Arizona emissions testing is pretty lax for this car they only want to see a CE light at startup and a gas cap test, but that's besides the point.

    When I say weak I suppose what I was experiencing is 'limp' mode. Initially the battery bars was showing about half bars or more, then it started dropping after the 'problem' messaged appeared, 3 bars.. 2 bars... down to 1 bar by the time it was parked back at home. Though when I would restart it after disconnecting the battery it would initially show most of the bars there for a minute or 2 then drop down to 1 or 2.

    Unfortunately I do not yet have a Hybrid code reader, I have been asking around, my next step is to get those codes read

    I didn't think the CM would have anything to do with the car not running, Thanks for the confirmation. The car has fresh oil and it is full.

    JC - unfortunately the previous owner didn't get the CM serviced while the warranty was in effect.

    The 'problem' only appeared for a second on the display and then the CE light came on at the same
    Moment with no other lights.

    I looked in the top of the radiator and it was full to the brim... now having just checked the water pump belt at your recommendation at first I thought it wasn't there but now I see that it doesn't wrap all the way around, the tension does seem a little loose...
     
    #4 ipetakitty, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    We arrived at the test center this afternoon in the heat of the day, everything (but the CM) was functioning fine, then as we were sitting in line a Problem message appeared on the screen and the check engine light came on, we proceeded forward and the power felt weak.

    Initial thoughts (aside from the CEL and Problem) is the AC was running off the battery. Heat of the day and waiting in line is a good recipe for draining the battery down to 2 bars. Hopefully the engine would cycle to keep the battery charged, but car programming will limit battery power so it will still feel weak until you have 4 bars again.
     
    #5 TMR-JWAP, Jul 15, 2018
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  6. ipetakitty

    ipetakitty Junior Member

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    TMR JWAP - that's a good bit of info. When we were driving yesterday, the battery started at half bars and was slowly climbing until capping out around 2 bars under full. Today the experience had been the battery consistently dropping bars as if it wasn't receiving a charge until the point where it went into limp mode
     
    #6 ipetakitty, Jul 15, 2018
  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    If the bars are showing alot of bars then they suddenly drop away thats a classic sign of a bad hybrid battery.

    is there an icon of a car in the upper left of the mfd looks like a turtle and do you have a red exclamation point on the dash.? Those together is usually a ground fault nag on the HB or just a good ole dead hybrid battery. Also you will hear the hybrid battery fan in the back seat come on real loud.

    Stop driving the car it will eventually leave you.
     
    #7 edthefox5, Jul 15, 2018
  8. Petrodollar

    Petrodollar Member

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    #8 Petrodollar, Jul 15, 2018
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  9. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    You keep mentioning heat and..... you're in AZ....... and it's July. :confused: :D

    Sounds like there could also be an inverter or inverter pump issue. With the car cool and in ready mode, feel the inverter pump hose leading to the reservoir for vibration and/or look inside the coolant tank for turbulence. If none, the pump is out. An inverter shut down results in a total loss of power which might be what happened originally. Then, letting the car sit with an old battery for two years slowly killed it and the 12v.

    You don't mention codes. It's MUCH easier to diagnose a Prius with the proper reading equipment. A generic OBD reader doesn't work well for hybrid specific codes.

    GOOD LUCK!
     
    #9 fotomoto, Jul 15, 2018
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  10. ipetakitty

    ipetakitty Junior Member

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    Fotomoto - thanks so much for you input! I have been suspecting the inverter/ pump to be the primary issue, but I haven't had the chance to look at it more closely yet.

    Fortunately I have a friend coming by with techstream tomorrow to get a read on the codes!
     
    #10 ipetakitty, Jul 15, 2018
  11. Petrodollar

    Petrodollar Member

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    A little information for when you buy a device to read Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs).
    There are two types of diagnostic devices to consider, an SAE J2534 interface and an OBD-II reader (OBD is On-Board Diagnostics).
    To use Toyota Techstream software, you need a device called an SAE J2534 interface or pass-through. Techstream gives you complete scanning and programming functionality, so it can read all codes and subcodes. Techstream software is Windows only, thus the need for a Windows notebook PC.
    For general code reading, you need a device called an OBD-II reader. OBD-II readers are more limited in the codes and subcodes they can read, and do not do programming.
    They both use the OBD-II connector in your car, but have completely different command sets.

    See this thread for details.
    OBD-II and SAE J2534 Tools List for PC, Smartphone, Tablet; Toyota centric, July 2018
    https://priuschat.com/threads/obd-ii-and-sae-j2534-tools-list-for-pc-smartphone-tablet-toyota-centric-july-2018.197309

    SAE J2534 interface devices are in section I.
    Toyota provides the MongoosePro Toyota 2 MFC2 from Drew Technologies, number 2, in their Techstream LITE Kit, number 1, but they are expensive ($500 alone or $1345 for the kit of device + 1 Yr. subscription of software).

    For a low cost SAE J2534 device, look at a Mini VCI, number 5 ($35) or 6 ($50).
    For a little higher cost, look at the VXDIAG VCX NANO series, numbers 3 and 4 ($80 - $240).
    (These come with the appropriate software).

    For OBD-II readers, Bluetooth readers will generally work with Android, although there are a few Bluetooth devices listed as working with iOS. Wi-Fi readers are often easier to get working with an iOS device. Software for iOS is more limited.

    Avoid the cheap ELM327 clones.
    Devices listed as non-ELM, will not run the common ELM apps such as Torque Pro and Hybrid Assistant.

    OBD-II readers are in section II.
    OBDLink LX and MX Bluetooth devices are highly recommended, number 1 ($50 and $80). They work with the Torque Pro and Hybrid Assistant Android apps ($5 and $0).
    ELM-327.EU ELM327 Bluetooth uses the genuine ELM327 v2.2 IC and is also highly recommended, number 2 ($57).

    For iOS, look at -
    OBDLink MX Wi-Fi, number 1 ($130)
    ELM-327.EU ELMINO WiFi, number 2 ($64)
    PLX Kiwi 3, Bluetooth 4.1, number 5 ($100)
    K Solution LELink^2, Bluetooth 4.0, number 6 ($35)

    Software is in section III.
    Torque Pro, number 3 ($5) and Hybrid Assistant, number 4 ($0), both for Android, are very popular.
    Torque Pro has a custom Parameter ID (PID) editor.

    For iOS, look at -
    OBD Fusion, number 5 ($10), can create custom enhanced PIDs, Toyota Enhanced Diagnostics Add-on ($10)
    OBD Auto Doctor Pro for iPhone, number 6 ($23)
    OBD Car Doctor Pro, number 7 ($4)
    Car Scanner Pro, number 8 ($6), has custom (extended) sensors (PIDs) support for manufacturer specific data - unlimited active custom PIDs
     
    #11 Petrodollar, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  12. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    This should be a sticky.
     
    #12 fotomoto, Jul 15, 2018
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  13. ipetakitty

    ipetakitty Junior Member

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    Well after running techstream there were no particularly unsettling codes, nothing on the inverter either. The code for out of gas came up, which I thought strange, having tried to put gas in it multiple times and thinking it was full due to pump clicking off... so I looked a little closer down the full neck and found a plastic obstruction, some part from a fuel canister that broke apart and fell in effectively plugging the full hole.

    I ran to the tool store to get some extra long needle nose pliers, yanked it out, added 8.5 gallons of gas and everything is running great. Figures! Glad it was something simple and stupid.
     
    #13 ipetakitty, Jul 18, 2018
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