Calling all lawyers , gen3 lawsuit question

Is there some organization that tracks things like engine failures, the reason, at what miles, and what percentage compared to total sales of the vehicle? And then you need to argue that the percent is singificantly higher than the others?

I think that would be needed. Is there such a thing in the States, or is it just safety violations?

 

You'd have to start with a Weibull analysis and determine the predicted failure at 150k miles compared to the actual failure.
Then you'd have to show that nothing the owner's did contributed to the actual failure rate.

 

The few things we as consumer that has control is discontinue support Toyota by not buying their cars anymore if they won't take responsibility for manufacture defects. Toyota employees are laughing to the bank to cash their checks while people are buying still buying the product even if they know the defects about it. For those who don't know and aren't DIY car wrencher type, I inform them by leading them in Hondas direction as toyota doesn't deserve anymore buyers. As I said before, this is the last Toyota that I will ever buy.

 

There are a few, but none have the resources to get to the bottom of each and every case- the failure analyses are far too expensive so they're all reliant on self-reporting. This is well-represented in the data quality if you catch my drift.

Upset that the car needs major service after 150k miles? That really strikes me as an unreasonable expectation. 150,000 miles is 50% past the end of the longest extended warranty I know of on these cars.

I know of some older, lower-tech cars that rolled more miles without that kind of problem but that kind of durability was always a bonus and never a promise.

 

The problem you're going to have is that you're complaining about problems in the powertrain which is warranted for 3 years or 36k miles. Where does Toyota claim that 150k miles is warranted or even expected to be achievable let alone achievable without maintenance or major repairs? Answer is they don't, because Toyota's lawyers aren't stupid. Ever read the manual that comes with the car? Full of contradictions and safety language. It was written by lawyers. It basically says that the car is awesome and also can explode at any moment for the slightest issue if you look at it wrong, and by doing so you're abusing it and no longer covered by any warranty because you breached.

If this was a headgasket failure that happened before 36k miles, easy to win. If it happened shortly after, it may be expected to last slightly past warranty. But 4.1x times warranty, that's a stretch.

 

Maybe this is a bigger deal now that resale values have risen to stratospheric levels? More value to protect?

I can only go by my perception and personal experience in car shopping, but ever since the cash-for-clunkers deal used car prices have gone sky high.

I used to buy 2-to-4 year old cars specifically because they had depreciated by >40% while still being nice cars, but those days are gone.

 

I wonder what a group like KBB or NADA have to say about their value, and whether they take this problem into account or not.

 

KBB prices are for individual cars, not fleet reputation.

 

How is this any different from HV battery life issues?

Clarification: that's the bumper-to-bumper warranty. Powertrain is 5yr/60k miles.

 

imo, you would need statistical evidence. to win a lawsuit, you have to prove failure beyond the normal scope. and possibly that toyota knew, and refused to address it.
isn't some cowboy posting about this in another thread? the guy with the fight club or ed norton avatar?
(i am not a lawyer, but sometimes play one on priuschat)

 

That's where the Weibull analysis comes in. A product defect lawsuit is on different footing than a warranty claim. In the OP's situation, the plaintiff would be saying that but for some manufacturing defect/problem (that the plaintiff would have to identify and prove), the head gasket would not have failed at 150K miles.

As an example, let's say your new brick house came with a five year home-owner's warranty. After 10 years, your bricks begin to turn to dust. Any normal brick is going to last more than ten years, so something was obviously wrong with the brick in the first place.

Substitute "head gasket" for brick and that's what the plaintiff would have to prove. This isn't a "should have been built better" analysis. It's a "something is inherently and obviously wrong" analysis. I don't know enough about head gaskets to know whether a failure at 150K means that they were manufactured wrong as opposed to just they weren't very good to start with.

 

IMHO.......a head gasket should not fail with any more frequency than a "Ball/Peen/Hammer" ......

 

Thanks for breaking that down for me. I was reading through the wikipedia article and gotten as far as realizing that Herr Weibull must have had access to much larger cocktail napkins than I.

From my own personal experience as a one-time mechanic and many-time car owner and occasional hobby rebuilder... I'd never say no to more than 150k miles per head gasket. There are many recent examples of other head gaskets not even doing that well.

 

If you're unaware of this issue, google "Camry headbolt problems". This is not Toyota's first rodeo with early and expensive engine failures. Spoiler alert: nothing happens.

 

Gaskets, like belts, hoses, oil seals, tires, wiper blades, are consumable and don't last as long as the parts they are attached to


iPhone ?

 

The head, handle or retainer staple? After all, we are talking about an individual component within a system.

 

You can't realistically expect a manufacturer to be liable for a component for well past its warranty period, it's not a reasonable request.
Engines fail all the time, what has been noticed is that there have been a quantity of early gen 3 cars that have blown their head gaskets, and there has been quite a lot of speculation as to the cause of it, but nothing has been proved definitively.
As a buyer I would be factoring in the cost of a head gasket replacement when looking at the price of the car, if one has been done and there are receipts to prove then imho the seller can ask top dollar for his car and the buyer has a little bit of piece of mind as well.


iPad ?