Major Alaskan oil field shutting down

Dare I say it?..... This is good news. Higher oil prices are good. Something needs to shake up the people. This is only way the technology will get pushed. Go ahead & flame.

 

Guess I am glad I filled up the Pri earlier today...at $3.10/gallon... :huh:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 6 2006, 08:26 PM) [snapback]298848[/snapback]</div>

I don't know if we should gloat? Whether we own Prius's or not we need that oil because the areas we will need to go to get its replacement are the Mideast or Venezuela, not the most American friendly areas (not to mention they are at capacity). I agree that Americans don't pay nearly what it costs for gasoline but there are a lot of people out there that cant afford a Prius or comparative, why punish them? Unfortunately this country is so mired with wars and deficits that there is no energy policy. Just raising gas prices isn't a plan and hurts the middle class and working poor harder than anybody, especially at a time when other pressures are squeezing them. Let me tell you that there isn't a person out there that I talk to that isn't feeling the gas price squeeze but they also cant afford to just trade in their cars for a Prius, not to mention there are not enough Prius's. Sorry for the soapbox, just dont think there needs to be anymore shaking, so to speak...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenFarmBoy @ Aug 7 2006, 12:05 AM) [snapback]298881[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you. I was reading a story about dining out and the gas prices have affected the way people do that. Instead of buying a decent meal some will go fast food instead because the high cost of gas. So while people are upset at the higher prices they rob from peter to pay paul.

 

You make a good point, and I agree with you. But we have much bigger problems on our hands (global warming and dependency on foreign oil) and it's just not going to get better until the gas prices go up. The BEST solution would be for the government to STOP providing tax incentives to the worst offenders, and require the auto makers to improve their mileage. But obviously that's not going to happen with this administration. So the next best thing is higher gas prices, which will drive consumer demand for higher MPG. I see in the pole: Why do YOU drive a Prius?, the majority are answering because of MPG. The pole does not discriminate between those who want higher MPG because of economical reasons vs. those driven by political reasons. Speaking for myself, I surely did not save money by bying a Prius. Improving the technology will benefit all of us. The poor SHOULD definitely get a break though -- how about raising minimum wage for Pete's sake? (Am I smug enough for ya?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 7 2006, 10:13 AM) [snapback]299012[/snapback]</div>

there is a bill out right now about raising it... may not be the best idea.

Raising the minimum wage can only result in inflation as prices increase to return profit margins to pre-hike levels. Adjusting this federal mandate has no sustainable impact on the standard of living afforded to our lowest paid, legal workers. This increase is also a ridiculous percentage. It’s a very bad idea at a time when the economy is struggling with rising fuel costs. Why would we ask for a 1-2 punch?

One thing about this bill is that it overturns state laws requiring that tipped workers receive the same or similar minimum wage as grocery store baggers. It could effectively decrease wages for a number of Americans, just to get good press before mid-term elections.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenFarmBoy @ Aug 7 2006, 01:05 AM) [snapback]298881[/snapback]</div>

War *is* America's energy policy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Aug 7 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]299019[/snapback]</div>

Uh-huh. So everbody else enjoys pay raises year after year while the poor (who provide much of the labor on which our profits and lifestyles depend) remain stagnant. Why should the rest of us suffer just so the poor can get a couple more bucks in their paycheck?

When was the last raise to minimum wage? How much has the cost of living gone up since then?

Ok, so let's continue to pour money into an unnecessary and mis-managed war, give tax breaks to the rich, and ignore the root of the problem.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 6 2006, 11:26 PM) [snapback]298848[/snapback]</div>

agree with you - the trick is not higher higher prices, it is keeping oil above $60/barrel

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Aug 7 2006, 11:37 AM) [snapback]299028[/snapback]</div>

If it were, gas would be $.50 a gallon here. Why is Iraqi oil being sold to the open market at market price then?

You really cant believe that can you??

And Islam is a religion of peace and tranquility that insures equal rights for all its believers and encourages open and free expressions of thought and opinions; is respectful of other beliefs and wishes to coexist in harmony with the world around it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 7 2006, 10:42 AM) [snapback]299031[/snapback]</div>

So instead of raising minimum wage, which is really only a short term solution as inflation rushes to keep up, why don't we offer tax breaks to those on minimum wage instead? allow the economy (and inflation) to remain relatively the same, while effectively giving the poor more money in their pay checks?

There are multiple solutions to every problem, the most obvious ones are not always the *best*, thus my post against indicating that increasing the minimum wage would be ineffectual at best.

Also, if you examine the cost of living (estimated, for a single parent with two children to be between 23k-45k) versus the effects of the proposed increase (a full time minimum wage job will bring in 18k with the increase), you see that it isn't enough. what it is enough to do is bump people just barely over the federal poverty line, which basically makes the numbers look good for politicians running for re-election.

 

Oil is at $77/bbl and likely rising. Even though I'm only ~200 miles and 2 fuel pips down into my current tank, I'm considering topping off at the station up the street today while it's still $3.01/gallon. :blink:

 

Sorry, but price pressures are the solution. Having lived in Europe I've seen it. A 1.5 liter 55 hp Volkswagon Lupo is plenty for most people. Gas costs 7.50 per gallon. We can start by never making a ridiculous vehicle like the Excursion again. Come on people....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Aug 7 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]299065[/snapback]</div>

Again I agree with you to certain point but the Middle Class and others are getting squeezed right now and higher gas prices, above 80 say, could start a serious recession and I don't care what you drive that aint no solution in me book... You cant overnight drive gas prices up to 4 or higher and say "See we told you not to buy the wrong car!". When was the last time you went looking for another car that gets above 30mpg, really above not just sticker. Good luck, because there aren't many. It is not fair to just blame people that have a car that gets say 24mpg because the manufacturers haven't produced many better than that. What about affordability, jesus people need to really think this through. Some have made crappy choices in cars that are gas guzzlers but others have no choice and cant afford a hybrid so I think people need to mellow on the assumption everyone just doesn't care about mpg.

I have to say again that is why people get pissed at Prius or hybrid owners. We have a very energy efficient clean car but that does not put us on a pedestal to tell others they need to have bought the car. What about the car manufacturers, you think they don't have the technology to produce better mpg cars? We need to raise CAFE significantly and then try to keep gas prices around where they are today and start gradually raising the price. If not then you will see some serious problems with our economy.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 7 2006, 08:55 AM) [snapback]299034[/snapback]</div>

I think all religions have had times when they have been hijacked by radicals, umm the Inquisitions??? Why don't you say Radical Islamic Fundamentalists or something because there are millions of Muslims that have no attraction to the killing crap. No I am not one but I just don't like it when people make broad statements like that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenFarmBoy @ Aug 7 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]299137[/snapback]</div>

Have to disagree with you here. The 20k or so (after federal credits) that I spent is a lot less then what some of my colleagues are buying right now.... And there cars are getting around 20 mpg.... The last thing I want to hear is them bitching about gas prices.

And if you are poorer, then the last thing you need is an SUV. The maintenance alone will ruin you before you even begin to consider gas charges. Think about it, new tires, increased insurance premiums, more maintenance.... etc...

The vast majority bring this upon themselves....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenFarmBoy @ Aug 6 2006, 10:05 PM) [snapback]298881[/snapback]</div>

Wth? :huh:
Am I missing something here?

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Profits at Exxon Mobil surged 36 percent to a near record $10.4 billion in the second quarter as surging oil prices helped the world's largest publicly traded company soundly beat Wall Street forecasts.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/27/news/companies/exxon/

The fact that the US government does not place oppressive levels of taxes on gasoline sales like other countries does not equate into “Americans don't pay nearly what it costs for gasolineâ€.

Do I feel that higher gas prices will cause Americans to change their wasteful (Hummer, etc.) ways?
To a point.
If gas were $10 per gallon, you would still see rationalized conspicuous consumption.

“But, but, I feel safe when I am driving alone in my Lincoln Navigator.â€

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Aug 7 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]299154[/snapback]</div>

Sorry but I totally disagree with you. Tax credits aside if the car costs 26 or so then you still are financing around 29 or so. That is a large payment for someone. I am not saying to hear them bitching but what I am saying is that the stress you will put on the economy with no control on gas prices will cream us all. If you dont think so then read some on the 70s and 80s. I will grant you that many have made bad decisions but it is the government that let CAFE go down and not up and that is what tells manufacturers what they can get away with.

If you raised CAFE and with no darn loopholes like if you produce 10000 or less than those dont count you would see some wonderful things out of car companies.

About the poor, they get what they can and those are either unsafe or large gas guzzlers. Not a lot of options in the less than 5k category. I am not saying you have to hear anything but this our countries problem not just ones that have a fuel inefficient car. Until our government gets serious then nothing will happen and we will get ourselves deeper in the doo...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Aug 7 2006, 11:29 AM) [snapback]299157[/snapback]</div>

It has been said that if you add up all the costs of fighting wars to defend the Middle East and all the costs we incur to protect them gas would be way above $10. Not too mention the fact that our lives are worth quite a bit SO NO WE DONT!!!! Just because oil companies make a fortune doesn't mean our government isn't spending BILLIONS, even without Iraq, to defend our "precious" oil. The problem is as stated that if it were to go to $10/gal then you wouldn't have to worry about your Prius, be more worrying about where you get your food...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenFarmBoy @ Aug 6 2006, 10:05 PM) [snapback]298881[/snapback]</div>

Who's punishing whom? Why not punish the politicians for letting things get to this point instead of doing something proactive like Brazil did, instead of being sheep and then baa'ing about it in unproductive misery?

We have voting power, can call your rep, etc etc. In many ways status quo is not a comforting blanket, and can only blame yourself afterall.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Aug 7 2006, 12:05 PM) [snapback]299180[/snapback]</div>

I guess I am not that good of a communicator because that is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you... It is totally our fault for letting OPEC play with our minds. As soon as they saw energy efficiency becoming popular in the 80s, what did they do? Raised production and thus prices came crashing down and so much for new technology. For a great long read "The Prize" is an awesome book, I listened to it. Again I say CAFE is the Key... Let me tell you I pay very much attention to how, really little, my reps do.

The totally scary thing is no one knows how much oil is left in Saudi Arabia, only the top officials there do. If they lower production then OUCH!!! Worldwide recession would soon follow. We are running this horse way too long and we need to change.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenFarmBoy @ Aug 7 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]299137[/snapback]</div>

Please try to see the big picture. We can pay now, or we can pay later. This is going to happen, we WILL see higher gas prices; we WILL see the government forcing the auto makers to increase MPG. The question is how much more destruction we do to ourselved before the people start demanding it (with their votes). How much more evidence do we need to see that global warming is real, and that we are making it worse. How many more predictions have to come true. The sooner we do something about it the better, and if higher gas prices causes it to happen sooner, then TERRIFFIC.