WHATS THE BEST OIL? 0W20? GOOD?

Do the 06 cars spec xw-20 oil? I've got an 04, and it calls for 5w-30, but allows for use of 10w-30 in a pinch. It would be very interesting, if Toyota is now calling for 20 wt oil, to find out if they made any internal changes to the 1NZ before changing the oil spec. In any event, I'm probably going to stay with the 30 wt, since I don't think I'd see much of a mileage gain on the 20 wt, and mine's got a Toyota Cert Used wty that's good out to 100k miles, so I'm not inclined to play around with the oil recommendation. Back to your question, I don't think early changes are nearly as important as they used to be years ago. Some makers, Honda in particular, claim to be using a specific break-in oil, and tell you NOT to change early. Don't know if Toyota has gone this route. If it were me, I'd probably change at 1k, 2k, and then on schedule, using dino for the first few, and then changing to an appropriate synthetic. This is certainly slight overkill, but again, that's just me. Filter? I'd pay the premium for a K&N. I don't buy the poor filtration arguments, and I think improved flow is important. I've done several used oil analyses using the K&N, and my particle counts were so low my motor oil graded clean enough for service as aircraft hydraulic fluid (not that you'd ever use motor oil for that!).

 

Toyota doesnt use a special oil to break the cars in. It is beneficial to wait anywhere from 3-5,000 miles before switching to synthetic. Both cars, I waited to 5k and then switched to Mobil 1.

Some of the new 2007's run a 20 weight oil.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 6 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]298769[/snapback]</div>

Nope, hasn't changed. Still 5W-30

 

I switched to Mobil 1 @ 1k miles

 

I switched to 5-30 Mobil1 at 500 miles.

 

Airflow is important, but the Prius Atkinson-Miller cycle engine has *VERY LOW* airflow requirements: because of the late intake valve closing, it doesn't even need 250 CFM even at max RPM, which just about any filter is good for.. A K&N doesn't make any difference because the car simply does not use that much air..

In terms of particles making it into the oil as an indication of air filter efficiency, I think this is extremely misleading.. The majority of infiltrates will tend to go straight out the exhaust and it's only a small percentage of the heavier particles that will end up in the oil, and those should get trapped by the oil filter, leaving just about nothing in the oil itself if the whole system is functioning properly.. Unless you intentionally dump a teaspoon of dirt all at once into the intake, I seriously doubt that it would have any effect whatsoever on the oil, but this doesn't change the fact that the K&N *IS* incontrovertibly, a less efficient filter.

As for oils, I don't know why anyone would use a blended oil- either full synthetic or stick with dino oil, half-way just wastes your money as the blends don't support extended drain intervals, and within normal drain intervals, dino and synthetic both perform the same..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c4 @ Aug 7 2006, 07:56 AM) [snapback]298965[/snapback]</div>

Apologies if I wasn't clear, but I was referring to the K&N OIL FILTER, not the air filter. I've never been a K&N air filter fan. I don't see the point of adding a couple percent hp in exchage for the risk of added dirt ingestion.

K&N oil filters, on the other hand, have shown remarkably good results in oil analysis, rebutting the often heard supposition to the effect that the better flow allows too much dirt to pass. As I said in my last post, my particle counts (acid test for filtration) have all been extremely low with the K&N oil filter.

I agree as to syn blends. I don't bother with them. I want 100% syn. Simple as that.

 

Not to excessively belabor the point, but this is the product to which I was referring, NOT their controversial air filter.

 

I ran Mobil 1 0W-20 over winter and posted the UOA here. To summarize: very good results, and I wouldn't hesitate to run 0W-20 year round.

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=18410

Think about all the Ford's, Honda's, and Mazda's that run happily on 5W-20. There is essentially nothing dramatically different about engine materials or clearances when you compare a Toyota motor to a Honda motor, or a Ford for that matter.

To add confusion, Toyota Canada has in their official Maintenance Menu, a note that either 5W-30 or 5W-20 can be used. My local dealer just shruges. I've shown him my UOA and - as far as he is concerned - I know what I'm doing.

To further add confusion, there is heated debate - even ANGRY heated debate - over how a motor needs a 5W-30, but a 0W-30 will cause the motor to burn oil or blow up or render you impotent or whatever. Repeat after me: at normal operating temp it's the same bloody viscosity!

Even at HTHS test reporting, the difference in viscosity is insignificant.

So whether you run a 5W-30 or 0W-30, it shouldn't matter. I would suggest the 0W-xx is better and will result in lower wear, especially in city driving, as it flows MUCH faster than a 5W-xx or especially a 10W-xx.

YMMV though. If the dealer is a real doofus, or is being a dick about it, run Mobil 1 5W-30 and keep them happy. I personally had no difference in MPG running dealer 5W-30 or Mobill 1 0W-30, and only a modest difference running Mobil 1 0W-20, and then only in bitter cold temps was it any better.

As far as filters, I use the Toyota filter that is branded Nippondenso. I'd avoid the cheap orange can Fram "Tough Guard" filter like the clap.

 

we run mobil 1 5w30 and a toyota filter. changed over to syn at 1k miles, then resumed the regular maintenance schedule. i know, probably pointless, but we did it pretty much for the sake of playing with the new car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 7 2006, 08:08 PM) [snapback]299360[/snapback]</div>

G

Of course that brings up my little rant of why the Prius in the EU has a 12 month or 16,000km oil service interval, but the Prius in North America are at 1/2 that interval.

j

 

On my first oil change I used 2W20 Mobil-1 Syn and a Fram filter.

Does anyone have any experience with "Royal Purple" Synthetic Oil? I can get what looks like a good deal on a couple of cases of 5W20, but I never heard of it before.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rand Reed @ Aug 7 2006, 08:43 PM) [snapback]299379[/snapback]</div>

Royal Purple is very popular with the high performance and street rod crowd. I personally have no experience with it, and I don't know anybody who does.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Aug 7 2006, 08:47 PM) [snapback]299381[/snapback]</div>

I ran one fill of 5w-30 RP in a V-6 Camry I had a few years back. That was before I knew about easily available UOAs, so no objective data, but the stuff ran fine and the engine seemed to show no ill effects.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Aug 7 2006, 07:53 PM) [snapback]299347[/snapback]</div>

Very true. After I get though with some preliminary observations which I'm doing using M1EP 5w-30, I plan to try a run or two with the quasi-legendary "German Castrol" (GC) 0w-30 synthetic. This is the oddball product in the Syntec line, for among other things, it's actually made in Germany. Unlike the other US-Made Syntec products, it's not a Group-III based product, which some argue isn't really a syn at all (semantics, for another thread). In contrast, GC is a Group IV (PAO-based, like M1) whose vis index improvers (VIIs) are actually esters, thus making them almost impervious to breakdown. The GC is actually a thick 30 wt (12.5 cSt at 100*C making it very nearly a thin 40 wt; current M1 5w-30s are at 11 cSt, recently upped from ~10). So, while it is a "0w" when cold, when hot, it may actually be a tad too thick to keep the little 1NZ (and the guy buying its gas) happy. And just to make things a little more fun, the version of GC made from late 2002 until early 2005 acutally pours out of the bottle with a strange green sheen. It's bizarre looking but performs beautifully per the UOAs. Can't wait to see what it does in a Prius, though if it hurts my mileage, I'll be in trouble, since I have a bunch of it stockpiled.

I've run GC in my G35, a Camry, and a Sequoia, all of which recommend 5w-30, and had great results with all of them, per UOA. So Jayman is dead on correct. You lose nothing on the hot end using a 0w-30 in place of 5w-30, and you gain the advantage of better flow on startup (though this is probably negligible, unless it's really cold outside).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 7 2006, 09:19 AM) [snapback]298968[/snapback]</div>

OK, I misunderstood your original post.. If the K&N has more surface area in its media, it can support both higher flow as well as higher efficiency. This is easy for an oil filter by adding more pleats, and once you reach the limit in terms of pleats, you can just make the can a bit bigger to accomodate more media and more flow.. On the other hand if you must keep the surface area the same, then the only way to increase flow is to sacrifice filtration efficiency- this is the problem with their *air* filters- no increase in surface area, but a greatly increased flow, therefore the filtration efficiency must be lower. The silly thing about the air filter is that when put on the Prius, you don't gain *any* additional power whatsoever because, as I pointed out, the Prius engine's airflow requirements are so low, that it is never starved for air, even at its highest RPMs.. The oil filter though, sounds like it's just fine..

I've been running the German Castrol 0W30 in my Classic for the last little while; I'm going with an extended change interval (roughly twice a year: winter and summer) as the oil meets the European ACEA A1/B1 A5/B5 standards. Mileage differences- not a big deal, but it seems to be a bit better than the Amsoil 0W30 that I was using previously, and being available at less than half the price, I'm not going back to Amsoil any time soon.. For my winter oil change I was thinking of going with a 0W20 grade, but I may just stick with the GC..

 

c4:

Thanks for the feedback regarding your use of GC. I was hoping that someone here had tried the stuff. Do you have any sense of the numerical loss in mpg, if any, using this oil? If it's a mere mpg or two, I'd go ahead and use it myself, given the outstanding UOA performance I've seen from the product in my other Toyota engines, and the Infitini as well.

Norman:

The Supertech would probably be perfectly serviceable in the low-stress 1NZ engine. The UOA results posted over on BITOG have been consistently pretty good. Of course, only you can tell how well it performs and holds up under your own unique circumstances.

FWIW, it is a Group-III based oil. There's nothing inherently wrong with the G-III, except for their "involvement" in the long running controversy about Castrol Syntec and how Castrol changed the Syntec line from Group-IV to Group-III about ten years ago. But that's another story. Point is, I think Supertech, or any other appropriately qualified oil (whatever its base oil formulation) will do fine, especially within Toyota's recommended 5,000 mile OCI.

Filters are a murkier issue. I've done UOAs with particle counts, and found that even the K&N, which is reputed to sacrifice filtration quality for free flow, does a superb job removing even small particles from oil, at least it did in my cars. I'll be doing some comparisons with my "new" Prius, and I'll pass the results along. My personal favorites are any filter made by Champion Labs. The CL "skeletal structure" is robust and sturdy, the the bypass valves are not made of weak plastic as some others are, and their anti-drainback valves are well made (yeah, I'm OCD, and I dissect oil filters too...). CL makes the Mobil-1, STP, K&N, Valuecraft (AZ house brand), Bosch Premium (premium only), WM Supertech, and a couple others I can't think of. All share the same skeleton and shell (the K&N adds the wireable nut on top), but have different filtraton media. Avoid the Fram. While there isn't a lot of evidence of actual failures, if you cut open a Fram and a CL product and compare the innards, it's like comparing a rusty Yugo with a new Lexus. Since they cost very nearly the same, why not get the "Lexus", just because...