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Leaving from heated garage into cold temps - how long before ICE kicks in?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Spidey71, May 16, 2018.

  1. Spidey71

    Spidey71 Member

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    Hi everyone. I've been reading many parts of the forum with great interest. We take delivery of our 2018 Prime in July, and it can't come soon enough as gas has risen to nearly $1.40/litre here in the Rocky Mountains of Alberta, Canada!

    Our new car will be parked in a heated garage (heated to 66F or 18C) during the winter. My question is, when we leave the warm garage into cold winter weather (-10F to +10F is a pretty common range for approx. 4 months of the year for us), would the ICE kick in right away or could we get a few miles on EV-only until the car itself started to cool down?

    The reason I ask is that my commute is less than 10 miles one way and was wondering if leaving the warm garage would be able to keep the car in EV mode before temperature sensors detected the actual outside temps.
     
    #1 Spidey71, May 16, 2018
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It depends. Below -10°C, it will kick the engine in for heat. If you leave the climate control off and just rely on the heated seats, you might be able to get a few km before the ICE kicks in. One possible solution is to use an EBH. That way, the engine is pre-heated, buying you more time. (The active grille shutters will be closed, also helping reduce the cooling effect on the engine).

    In my Gen 3, I have a short 10km (6 mile) commute. With an EBH and a fully blocked lower grille (similar to having your grille shutters off), the engine will shut down at a traffic light in ECO mode with the heater off in -10°C temps. This is just a point of reference for you.

    Alternatively, you could run the engine anyway (since it would be warmed to the minimum threshold at least halfway through your commute). Yes you would be burning gasoline instead of using EV but given that you have a 43 litre tank, it doesn't hurt to go through a tank or two during the winter to flush it out. Time it right to get a fresh tank of fuel in the spring with summer blend.
     
    #2 Tideland Prius, May 17, 2018
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    everyone's experience is different, because it is multifactorial. but more than likely, the engine will start fairly quickly.
     
    #3 bisco, May 17, 2018
  4. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    I've read here the grill shutters won't close when it's that cold, because they are worried they will stick shut. Sounds a little silly to me, but that is what I read. Maybe time for "auxiliary grill block" with pipe insulation on the outside of the grill. I leave it on the lower grill all winter. I leave the upper grill open. I also recommend putting some kind of mesh on the inside of the grill to keep rocks from hitting the A/C condenser. I use evestrough mesh.

    The car will come with a block heater (in Alberta you have NO choice), AND you "get to" spend $400 on it! Oh, and it's a 200W device, which will make almost no difference at -10C, though in the garage it might warm the engine a bit. What a wonderful manufacturer! ;)

    I suspect the engine will stay off for about 5-10 min, then go into "cat warmup" cycle. Probably good anyway, preventing you from ending up with stale gas in the tank. ;)
     
    #4 David Beale, May 17, 2018
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    keep in mind it is a prime, with lithium.
     
    #5 bisco, May 17, 2018
  6. MNdriver

    MNdriver Senior Member

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    I also park in a heated garage, although not as warm as yours. I’d typically get about 2 miles before the sensors reached the magic 14 degree benchmark for the ICE kicks in.
     
    #6 MNdriver, May 17, 2018
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  7. Spidey71

    Spidey71 Member

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    I actually had to insist they spec a block heater for the car ($500, but they ended up throwing it in for free). The sales guy said they don't typically install them on new vehicles the use 0W oil. Can anyone else confirm if this is the case? I'd feel pretty vulnerable not having a block heater, but then again my sister's BMW doesn't have one and her dealership said it's absolutely not needed, and that even their cars in Alaska don't have them.
     
    #7 Spidey71, May 18, 2018
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well put it this way:

    You're going for a run and it's -10°C. You could

    A. Put on a sweater and stay warm initially as you step out

    B. Wear a t-shirt as you step out of the house.


    In both scenarios, you'll eventually warm up when you run for a while. The difference is that you warm up faster when you're wearing a sweater and there's less stress on your body.

    Same as the engine.

    EBH necessary? No. But it will save wear & tear on your engine, you'll get cabin heat faster (because the engine will be hotter, sooner) and you'll get better fuel economy and pollute less because your engine will get up to temperature sooner. (and can shut off at a stop or while in motion)
     
    #8 Tideland Prius, May 18, 2018
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  9. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    My friend was told Toyota Canada insisted the dealer install the block heater in his. The dealer had to pay due to how the contract was written. I have no idea how much those things cost the dealer, but if it's more than $50 they're getting ripped off! Plus an hour labour (he was told it was 1 1/2 hr, but with a hoist it should be a little quicker than that with an experienced mechanic).

    Going from a "room temperature" to -10C I doubt the block heater would do much. IF you used it. Nobody plugs in a block heater when the car is parked in a room temperature environment do they? The engine will warm up quickly if you go out on a highway. If you don't, I don't think the car would get very cold in the short trip you talked of. But it would once parked. If you were able to plug it in there, if outside, it might keep the engine coolant at +10C, if you're lucky. Note than Pearl S operates at between 50C and 60C coolant temp. when it's that cold outside. It takes about 10 min of driving in the city to get to 50C, engine running constantly, stopped or not. With a blocked lower grill. If I go on the highway I don't think the thermostat ever opens fully. I see max. coolant temps of around 75C.

    So I suspect the Prime would be "effective" mostly from April to October. November to April I would expect it to act mostly as "just" a hybrid.

    Pearl had the 400W block heater. Used it once, to see how effective it was. Never used it again, because it made virtually no difference.

    But certainly let us know how it's going! I'm secretly lusting for one, but don't tell Pearl S! ;)
     
    #9 David Beale, May 18, 2018
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  10. thatoneraccoon

    thatoneraccoon Active Member

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    Last winter I would usually get about 2 miles before the sensors got warm enough to kick on the ice
     
    #10 thatoneraccoon, Jun 25, 2018
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