Why the Prius is a success

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 11:20 AM) [snapback]297095[/snapback]</div>

gee, you were the one who started enumerating YOUR reasons/impressions as to why the Prius is such a success.

In 41 years of driving, the only cars that I owned that were ever recalled for safety defects were from Toyota. That includes a lot of USA cars and trucks, Porsches, ALFAS, and even <gag> a Renault.

If and when I sell or trade this car, I will probably have to replace the scratched, soft plastic door liner and maybe the tires again. The only other car that ate tires faster was the 2004 HCH.

All cars, including this one, are appliances. This car is better at some things, and worse at others. Like all cars. I like my Prius for many reasons, mostly the MPG and the hatchback. Why Honda has chosen, like many others, to abandon hatchbacks is beyond me. But hey, I am only one consumer...

BTW: the EPA is the one that rates car size based upon interior volume, so the Prius IS a midsize. Plus, any car that weighs more than 3,000lbs 'wet' is no small car. That said, I don't want to challenge an H1 or Tahoe, either

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 02:39 PM) [snapback]297120[/snapback]</div>

Looking at the numbers of "brake problem" type posts, "warped dashboard" type posts and the "here's how I fixed my rattle/squeak and you can too" type posts, it seems like the Prius is, in fact, put together in a somewhat haphazzard manner.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 3 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]297040[/snapback]</div>

My commute hours are the prime commute time for the SF Bay Area - average speed 40 to 50 mph which I think is the idea speed for cruising for the best mpg!

What I do notice is that the HCH is a lot more load sensitive than the Prius - and that's not surprising since the Prius engine (combo) is more powerful than the HCH. I always commute by myself but on the rare occasions that I give a collegue a ride home, my HCH experience a decrease of 2-3 mpg's - ok she's about 200 lbs - but with the Prius, I don't see any difference outside the statistical fluctuation with the extra passanger.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 02:30 PM) [snapback]297104[/snapback]</div>

What's your beef with the Prius? If you dislike it as much as it sounds, I'd do yourself a favor and dump it for whatever the hell you think might be better.

If your only complaint is a rattling in the door, I'd just stick to shutting the hell up.

 

I'd like to add best hatchback ever. I love the fact the floor is level with the bumper. It's great for putting things in and taking them out.

This is my first Toyota and it's better than my previous cars. The one just before was a Saturn SC2 coupe. In the 9 years I had it I had to replace the engine clips three times. The first time was under warranty. I had to pay the next two times. The those two they no longer had the same clips, so they had to use longer ones. Not sure about all this, but my understanding was that the clips held the engine to the frame. When they broke, the engine shook the car. It was awful when it idled at stop lights. When I had them replaced for the third time I complained about this being a defective design. I was told they were basically a consumable part and it was expected that I would have to replace them periodically.

Bull$h¡t.

It wasn't the only sign of poor workmanship either.

Compared to the Saturn, the Prius is built solid and of much higher quality. Then again, I have no squeaks or rattles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]297123[/snapback]</div>

I have to admit my Prius has a few rattles/buzzes that come and go. The problem is, I'm sure when I take them to a dealer that only a few/none will repro.

Of the Toyotas my parents and I have collectively owned, we've had a 91 Camry (few probs, sold it long ago), 96 Camry (very few probs, I think only a brake prob once, mom still has it), and an 02 RAV4 (I think it's a POS but it's had no probs so far). I can't speak to rattles on those cars since I don't drive them regularly and they have lots of crap in the car or glove box.

The 96 Camry and 02 RAV4 have each had a lot fewer probs than my 02 Maxima (which I liked a lot btw) I used to have and my 04 350Z.

Go take a peek at http://www.my350z.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=53, http://www.my350z.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2, http://forums.maxima.org/forumdisplay.php?f=10 or http://forums.maxima.org/forumdisplay.php?f=66. You'd think their cars are all POSes compared to the Prius. The Maxima has had a pretty good reliability rating overall in Consumer Reports BTW.

Since njkayaker brought up statistics, every model year of Prius has done VERY well in terms of Consumer Reports reliability ratings.

Since wstander brought up recalls, here's my count for current and last car I owned:
02 Maxima: 3, crankshaft position sensor, accelerator pedal stopper, transverse link/control arm
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems...rintVersion=YES
04 350Z: 1, fuel filler hose could leak
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems...rintVersion=YES
06 Prius: 0

If you want a laugh and want to see a lot of recalls for a model year of a car, see these.
2000 Ford Focus had 11 recalls:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems...rintVersion=YES
2001 Ford Focus had 7 recalls:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems...rintVersion=YES
2001 BMW X5 had 10 recalls:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems...rintVersion=YES

 

Well, the biggest world problem with emissions is CO2 in case you hadn't noticed. And the only car that beats the Prius for CO2 is the Insight and after that only the microscopic Toyota Aygo/Peugot 107/Citroen C1 are close. Having a big car that beats such tiny and slow city cars is amazing. CO2 is far more important than MPG - otherwise I'd be driving a new Honda Civic diesel - 55mpg and 0-60 in 8 seconds!

As far as build quality - it seems clear to me that Toyota have saved money on the interior to offset the cost of the drivetrain and R&D. Seems to me that it's about on a par with entry-level cars, rather than mid-market.

 

Hatchback !!

I forgive Toyota for the use of the black dashboard material, since they were trying to use recyclable plalnt-based material, but I dislike it's texture. look, and most of all squeaks. When I take people for rides, the squeaks sure detract from the overall great impression.

Ah well, perfect is difficult to reach.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 4 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]297723[/snapback]</div>

Well, emissions and CO2 are a bit more complicated then you make it out. The Prius has 3 catalytic converters if I remember correctly, it rates much better then the Corolla you mention. The Corolla will emit 5.5 tons of Co2 per year (12,000 miles) and the Prius 3.4 tons. That is a substantial reduction, and the mpg comparison is closer then the Co2 comparison.

 

Absolutely. Seems to be even more important with big vehicles. Here, minivans and SUVs are mostly diesels, and get 30-40mpg easily. You'd be insane to buy a petrol one, even if they are cheaper. Pickup trucks must surely be all diesel by now...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(molgrips @ Aug 4 2006, 04:34 AM) [snapback]297555[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 4 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]297723[/snapback]</div>

:blink: :huh:

What are you trying to say? Diesels emit more CO2 per gallon or not? Or are you saying that rather than worry about the difference, assume it away and use mpg as a rough proxy or estimate for CO2 emissions across different fuels to avoid computations? (22.384 pounds of CO2 per gallon of diesel vs. 19.564 pounds of CO2 per gallon of gasoline. Diesel also gives more CO2 per BTU, BTW.)

I found this article helpful in understanding the role of diesel, CO2, and particulates in global warming. NOx, hydrocarbons, CO, carcinogens, and health are other issues that I don't have a grip on.

 

I agree 100 % with Njkayaker and Jw teacher. The Prius is COOL and where I live, cool is important.

 

Okay, I'll admit I did have one rattle.

But I took the water bottle out of the pocket in the door and the rattle suddenly disappeared. Go figure.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]297123[/snapback]</div>

One more data point, although not very statistically valid (just like looking here for # of occurrences of problems isn't either), if you want to see a REALLY crappy, unreliable vehicle's message boards and problems, take a look at these for the VW Touareg.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=39
http://forums.clubtouareg.com/viewforum.ph...cdays=0&start=0
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2...447610#31447610
http://home.kc.rr.com/badtouareg/
http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000021.html
http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000031.html

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544 [made least reliable list]
http://biz.yahoo.com/special/luxury080306_article1.html [also made least reliable list here]

Yet for all the crap, there (of course) are still fan boys like at http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2754300 who say they will take cars w/German engineering w/some probs over American and Japanese cars. Ok...

This is for a vehicle that sells in TINY numbers compared to the Prius and was first available w/the 04 model year:
Toyota US July 06 sales: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/08/01/016769.html
VW US July 06 sales: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/08/01/016743.html