Oh, I'm fairly confident most of us can grasp the concept of multiple quotes just as well as you Canadians.
I was born in Canada but I think he was targeting the Americans who do not know how to read manuals or use search functions;
Some pros and cons of the C350e vs the Gen 4 after driving the Mercedes for a couple of days over several hundred miles; BSM - I assumed it was the same as the Gen 4, but it's not. It only works at speeds above 20mph. I drive mostly in the city and I used to love seeing the orange light at very low speeds alert me to cyclists coming up beside me (especially at night when many cyclists don't use lights) - However, above 20mph, it works as good as the Gen 4. Rear Cross Traffic Alert - Sadly, doesn't have it. I only realise now how well it worked in the Gen 4, and how it saved my bacon several times. 360 camera - I wasn't that bothered about it not being in the Gen 4, mostly because of the large windows, the big sidewalls, the narrow body and the plastic wheel trims that were cheap to replace if they got kerbed a lot. However, it makes driving the bigger and wider Merc, much easier, especially when parallel parking back into a space on a busy street. The diamond cut alloys are pristine and I love being able to see not just a bird's eye view of the car and the parking space and the kerb but I can switch to see different camera views to see EXACTLY how close my rims are to the kerb. I think the Gen 5 should offer a 360 camera. Bluetooth sound quality when making calls - I work for myself and I do a lot of conference calls whilst stuck in traffic. The Gen 4 was amazing because my clients on the other end of the phone could not hear any traffic noise (unless it was an ambulance siren outside) and they couldn't even tell I was driving at 50mph with lots of tyre roar. The Merc takes it to a whole new level though, partly because the Burmeister sound system with 13 speakers is even clearer than the Gen 4 (Note: I didn't have the JBL setup in my Gen 4) Brake Hold: I love this feature in the Merc. In my Gen 4, because of my knee pain, if I was stopped at a light or for more than 30 seconds in traffic, I would put the car into P and take my feet of the brake pedal. In the Merc, I simply press the brake pedal harder when stopped, the dash says HOLD, and the brakes stay engaged without me keeping my foot on it and the brake lights illuminated. Adaptive Cruise Control: Mixed feelings. The Gen 4's felt more consistent, because the Merc seemed to not speed back up sometimes, even though the car in front has zoomed off. I think it got confused by the trucks in the lanes next to me. Loved the 7 clicks on the Merc in terms of setting the distance between you and the car in front. Much better than the 3 clicks for the Gen 4. Also given the Merc has a lot more power, if you keep it in sport mode when on adaptive cruise, it resumes speed far quicker than the Gen 4 could, even when it was in power mode. The Merc also has steering assist, where it will steer as well as brake and accelerate. It didn't always stay within the lane markings, I found myself switching it off. Not as good as the Tesla auto steer. Changing radio station, temp of AC, general ergonomics of dashboard: Oh my god. Hands down the Gen 4 wins. The Merc is so fiddly to use in comparison. I have one of those ipad type screens on the dash, but it's not a touch screen and the touchpad on the centre console/scroll wheel is so crap to use. I set my music BEFORE I commence my journey now. Temp of AC is not in 0.5C increments like the Gen 4. I now realise the MFD in the centre dash, the type of fonts used, the clarify of the text in the Gen 4 is all light years ahead of the Mercedes. Luckily, the Merc has a HUD like the Gen 4. Interestingly, whilst it doesn't show battery info like the Gen 4, it does show the speed for adaptive cruise that you have set, along with your current speed. That's rather cool. Sense of safety: The Gen 4 has fantastic build quality but stepping into the Merc, from the moment you close the door, it feels very different from the Gen 4. You feel much safer and protected because of how solid everything is. Even the window switches and door open handles are solid metal. I don't know if the C class would be safer than the Gen 4 in any accident, but it feels safer. Getting extra regen: In the Gen 4, I could tap it into B without even taking my eyes off the road. In the Merc, I have to glance near the speedo, press a button on the centre console a number of times, before putting the car into ECO, which activates more regen. Brakes: Hands down win for the Gen 4, best hybrid brakes I've driven. The Merc doesn't have progressive brakes. You press the pedal and it doesn't slow down much, and then you press a bit more and you notice your passengers heads swinging back and forth as the pads hit the cross drilled discs. Overtaking: I got used to the limited power of the Gen 4 and used to plan my lane changes much more and got used to the droning sound of the engine as I gave lots of gas to join the motorway or change lane because a truck just swung into my line. However, I'm a swift driver by nature so this is where the Merc shines. I can overtake knowing I've got access to 442 lb/ft and in a split second, I'm heading very rapidly towards autobahn speeds without even realising it, and best of all, no droning from the engine! Hybrid system: Passengers commented at how smooth the Merc felt to them as it switched between ICE/EV, but they hadn't been in my Gen 4. The Prius is light years ahead of the Merc, especially at very low speeds in the city, when you can actually feel the vibrations as the engine kicks in. I never felt that in the Gen 4. I could hear the engine kick in, but I couldn't feel it. I guess that's a result of Toyota refining the hybrid system over 20 years. The Merc has a haptic pedal that pulsates to let you know, "Hey, don't press the gas pedal any further cos if you do, the ICE is going to kick in" - that's kinda cool MPG: I did charge it once, but mostly have been driving it without charging it, and I almost cried when I drove super gently today and still found the trip computer showing 36mpg UK, when the Gen 4 would be closer to 66 mpg UK for the same journey. These two cars don't compete against each other in the market, I fully appreciate that, but again it reminds me just how efficient the Gen 4 is and the pioneering design of the hybrid system. Hope you enjoy my comparison
Thanks @raspy - very enlightening, as the C350e is one of the cars vaguely in my mind as a replacement for Samantha when it comes time to replace her - next year or 2. It's not a front runner, though, but I do expect that I'll get a Plug-In of some type next time. The MERC is a bit bigger than I hoped to get though - but will be a consideration. But - I sort of expected the Merc would shine on more counts - to see that PRIUS is in front on so many fronts was surprising, particularly economy, as well as some driving experiences. Merc will have a new model out by then - not sure how that will affect their hybrid models.
Thanks for the comparison. There are many alternatives to the Prius but it's rare that a PriusChat member would have both and can share their experiences (a number of people here have Fusion Hybrids and C-Max hybrids/Energi and a couple of Ioniq owners). I'm actually interested in the brake comment. I found the Gen 4 a bit grabby at the transition from regen to friction braking, akin to the 2nd generation Prius. I found my 3rd gen to be the smoothest (which was dialed back a bit when they did the ABS update in 2010 or 2011.. it's a bit jerkier but still smoother than Gen 2 or 4). I also found more North American auto journalists commenting on the Gen 4 grabby brakes than they did with the 3rd gen. I can't imagine the sensation in the C350e. Short of buying a Lexus (the more expensive models), you'd be hard press to find/hear/feel that kind of solidity in a Toyota. I found that even the cheapest European cars sound solid and the doors have some heft to them. Sure, it can be dialed into the door arms or the actual weight of the door. At least the Gen 4 sounds better. The Gen 2 and 3 doors sounded tinny.
Thanks @raspy for the superb report... What a reversal of opinions from the all-too-prevalent motoring press with their comparisons of Prii with other brands. Should you ever need a career change, I'm sure you could excel as a motoring correspondent for any top publication.
Yeah, I thought the Merc would shine on more counts too. Again, it reminds me of just how ahead of the game Toyota is when it comes to the hybrid powertrains. Yeah, the new C400e is due in a few months and will have double the real world range, so about 25 miles on electric. I get the feeling that many Merc customers are choosing petrol or diesel models rather than the PHEV Merc because the C350e is much more expensive, is much heavier (so impacts handling and fuel economy), and the thought of fixing a hybrid system on a Mercedes terrifies them. I did read on the MB owners forum that one owner purchased a C350e new and 3 weeks later the hybrid battery had issues. The workshop looked at it and said it needed a new battery under warranty (cost was 15,000 British pounds!)
I had to reverse the Gen 4 onto the drive the other day, and because the C class has the gearlever on the steering column, I was wanting to put the car in R or D and found myself with the wipers on. So I let my friend drive the C350e, and even he said the brakes are really bizarre in how they operate. I've been getting used to it. Not sure if the Gen 4 brakes were set up differently for UK market, but I found them brilliant to use. Yeah, even a VW Golf 'feels' more solid than the Gen 4. That's why consumers have the perception that German cars are of a higher quality even though when it comes to crash tests, the Gen 4 gets the top 5 star rating here in Europe just like German cars. Funnily, the doors in the C class are made from aluminium to save weight, and folks on the owners forum say the doors feel tinny compared to the E class! The GS300h I test drove was even more solid feeling than the C class, but it drove poorly. The hybrid powertrain on the Gen 4 definitely felt better and smoother.
Here are some further reflections: Wind noise: My Gen 4 has some wind noise around the front pillars, but the car was so quiet otherwise, I got used to it. Was surprised to get wind noise from front pillars in the Merc as well. I think only my 1992 Lexus LS400 had zero wind noise. I miss that. Tyre roar (from the rear) - This bugged me at high speeds on the Gen 4, and this issue is absent on the C350e. Seat comfort: Come to think of it, for an Eco car, the Gen 4 actually has amazing comfortable seats. I used to spend hours in urban traffic jams every day and never had back pain or aching. The problem for me was I think the position of the pedals to the seats twisted my knee in a strange way, which led to my old knee injury being aggravated over recent months as I did much more driving on a daily basis. Plus the seat didn't go back as far as I wanted it to. I remember reading old car reviews when I was a kid complimenting Mercs on their super firm seats. I spent about 4 hours driving yesterday in the Merc and found my lower back aching. They definitely feel much firmer than the Gen 4. I guess that's my back 'adjusting' to the firmness? 4 way lumbar support on both front seats in the Merc. Electric memory seats for driver and passenger AND under thigh support adjustable for both seats. I'm finding the extra adjustments compared to the Gen 4 to be useful. Response from other drivers: This is a funny one. So because virtually every Prius in the UK is driven by an Uber driver, I would find the Gen 4 would provoke very aggressive reactions from taxis and buses in London, but Uber drivers (assuming I was one of them) would always give me space to enter a gap or turn into a side road. And even when driving on the road at the speed limit, I would get tailgated just for driving a Prius. If I was driving the Gen 4 in the fast lane, very few people would pull over as I approached them. With the Merc, it's a whole different ball game. The more aggressive looking day time running lights on the front and being a black car must make a difference. Every time I'm gaining speed on the motorway, people seem to pull over quite quickly. However, given the C class looks like a baby S class, and virtually every black E and S class in London is an executive taxi, then I still look like a taxi driver to others on the road! Boot (trunk) space: This is the same issue with the Prius PHEV, the raised floor to accommodate the batteries drastically reduces the size of the boot. I generally don't put anything more than a few shopping bags in the boot, so no big deal, but for those that put suitcases etc in the back, then PHEVs really need to up their game to be attractive to buyers. Luckily I have folding rear seats in the Merc, which are 40/20/40 split rather than the 60/40 split in the Gen 4. Reversing: In the Merc, you can set the passenger door mirror to auto dip once you select R. When combined with the 360 camera, it really makes reversing into any space so much easier. I didn't have lots of issues with reversing in the Gen4, but these two features would have certainly been welcome. Steering/ride: I've driven a lot of cars in the past 10 years because I rent cars when I travel to Europe and the US from regular cars to Escalades. The Gen 4 has such a supple ride (it reminds me of my 1992 Lexus LS400 which was even more supple), but it's the steering on the Gen 4 that I miss the most. It really is delightful. It gives the Gen 4 a unique sense of agility in urban traffic that makes driving in the city or a multi story car park so easy. The Merc has a turning circle of 11m vs 10.2m for the Prius, which I can sorta cope with. I tested an Audi A4, lovely refined car, but the turning circle was 11.7m. It's like piloting an oil tanker. Out of all the cars I've test driven recently, the one that felt closest to the Gen 4 in terms of steering and ride was the Kia Optima PHEV. Spare wheel (or lack of) - I've always driven cars with spare wheels. It's just something I'm more comfortable with. My Gen 4 has one. I actually had to use it once due to a flat tyre. The Merc comes with a can of tyre sealant and a compressor. I'm almost tempted to buy a 5th alloy wheel with a tyre and leave it in the boot. Ok, maybe not. Sense of interior space: One of the most amazing things about the Gen 4's interior was that even with black seats and a black dash, it still felt extremely light and airy because of the unique design. I miss that in the Merc. However, the Merc is unique in it's own way, as it has a full length panoramic sunroof, with cream coloured blinds, the interior is cream leather and on a warm day, it feels light and airy. I test drove a BMW 330e recently and it was a totally black interior. Yes, it drove very well round bends, but when stuck in a traffic jam, it gave me the feeling I'd been locked in solitary confinement when compared to the Gen 4. Dashboard: The C class feels like I've gone back to 1984. The Gen 4 still feels futuristic and a bit bonkers in that mad Japanese manner. I pray that the Gen 5's dash is even crazier looking. Mobile phone storage/mounts: I miss that large space in the Gen 4 where you could wirelessly charge the phone as I have large-ish phones. The Merc does have a place on the centre console to slot a phone, but my large screen phone doesn't fit entirely. I used to drive the Gen 4 with two phones mounted on the dash. One would be using a CD player mount, and the other would be in a special tray that fitted perfectly on that flat surface of the dashboard. It kept my windscreen free of phones. Can only use the CD player mount in the Merc, but not great because the CD player slot is much lower than the Gen 4. However, the armrest in the centre console of the Merc has TWO usb ports vs ONE in the Gen 4. Perfume in glove box: Yes, the Merc has some fragrance bottle in the glove box with essential oils like bergamot that infuses into the ventilation system to improve the ambience in the cabin. It needs to be refilled. Might give it a go. Owners Forum: PriusChat is incredible in terms of the sheer number of threads and community. Also being able to communicate with Prius owners from around the globe has been incredibly enriching. There is no specific forum that I've found for the Merc. With regard to the Merc, I had been posting in a general MB owners forum about my search for a C350e. So I posted the other day that I finally got one and someone posted back saying they were the previous owner and they had treated the car well, it had been trouble free ownership, and he even offered me the summer tyres for the car (it came fitted with brand new very expensive Continental winter tyres) - serendipity. When driving in the UK, most of the cars broken down at the side of the road tend to be expensive German ones. I've always owned Lexus/Toyota which have been super reliable, and I'm still very nervous with the Merc, but reassuring that the previous owner never had a problem. I've bought 2 cars from owners forums before, principally because enthusiasts like us tend to really care for our cars compared to the average owner. Most of the 2-3 year old cars I had test driven recently from any brand were ex-lease and were generally not cared for in the way that enthusiasts care for their cars. That's why the Merc stood out. 1 private owner from new who had pampered the car. Thanks for reading my long-ish post.
Similarly on the Gen 2 and 3 Prius - In 2004, it was probably the first non-luxury car to use ultra-high tensile steel which meant super thin panels that had the same strength as whatever the standard thickness was in the early 2000s. But because of the thin panels, it flexed if you pushed on it, giving the impression of an aluminium soft drink can and thus continuing the "Japanese tin car" car perception. This bugs me as well. The tires are the loudest thing you can hear. It's a bit better in Canada than in the US as portions of the US Interstate have concrete slabs which create a lot of tyre noise and that gets transmitted into the cabin. When one drives on freshly paved asphalt, you can really appreciate the quietness of the interior. Gotta do something about the tyres. (I'm guessing LRR = harder compound = more noise... for now.. until technology improves) The closest to a Merc I've owned is a Mk II smart fortwo (lol). I opted for the leather option and it had really comfortable seats. I took it across Canada (6,000km) and even without cruise control, I never came out aching. My Gen 3, on the other hand, isn't as comfortable. It's ok for 90% of the trips but the 10% (i.e. road trips), it can be better. I agree that the Gen 4 is miles ahead. Oddly enough, I feel more comfortable in the front passenger chair than in the driver's chair. No idea why. Oh the joys of Prius ownership. I did pulse & glide with a 1986 Chevrolet CK1500 pickup trunk (standard cab, regular bed). No idea tailgated me or changed lanes in aggravation. Same can't be said if I P&G in the Prius. This is one area that annoys me with the PHV - If it's a 4 seater, why doesn't Toyota allow the centre 20% to fold down. With a 5 seater, you can fold down the 40 side and still seat two passengers on the 60 side with seatbelts buckled. In a 4 passenger, you lose one rear passenger regardless of which side you fold. I like the European light interiors. They seem to be the right hue without being too light (or white) and without looking too dark (or brown/saddle). The combination with black (e.g. black dashboard, black door trims with cream insert, cream seats etc etc) works well... from Volvo, to MB to BMW. Audi had some nice combinations in the late 90s/early 2000s (called "Atmospheres" in Canada) but they're a bit old fashioned in today's world. e.g. cream interior with light brown dashboard/door toppings and walnut accents. In contrast, the Japanese do greys well (mostly). The medium or light grey with dark blue or black dashboard/door topping and black bird's eye maple combination (e.g. Lexus GS/LS) is pretty sweet (if a bit macabre, recalling images of a crow or dark, rainy anime scenes) Yup, just like in 2010 when the Gen 3 came out and didn't have ANY usb ports. Toyota USA fixed it in 6 months but Toyota Canada never added USB ports until 2016. The lack of USB charging is annoying. Also, I swear by the time Toyota adds them, it'll be onto USB-C (The 2019 Nissan Altima will have USB-C charging ports - first car in North America). Taken straight from the S-Class! I think you can choose your fragrance to be put into the glovebox
I wonder if they can use tech to eliminate the tyre roar noise on the Gen 5, by using audio at certain frequencies in the cabin to cancel out the noise of the tyres? I'm sure some manufacturers offer that, just can't remember which ones. I was so impressed with the Smart ForTwo 2017. The seating position (for me) was even more comfy than the Merc. It drove fantastically well. Wow, 6000km across Canada, that's so cool.
Horn: The Gen 4, like many Jap cars has a horn that sounds so feeble and apologetic. When you press it, it's like you're saying, "I'm terribly sorry, could I trouble you to just scoot over a pinch, so I can get through. I'm really sorry to ask you." My god, the Merc has a horn that is like a foghorn by comparison. When you press it, it's like you're saying, "I'm 4,400 lbs of steel, hybrid battery and aluminum doors. Now pay attention and get out of my way. I'm coming through!"
