PHEV Help: Prius Prime, Honda Clarity, or Volt

That depends upon the goal.

If the purity isn't required, the resulting 199.9 MPG could be just fine.

We must make it clear that overall results are still very impressive, even when EV used up entirely. How much extra capacity will people be willing to pay for? After all, the average commute in metro areas is only 12 miles.

 

As a hybrid, the Prime will likely have more capacity buffer at the top and bottom than the Leaf battery does. Plus, it can always turn on the ICE if the system feels the battery is at risk.

They all will throttle the fast charge rate back if the battery temperature gets too high. The Leaf uses a passive cooling system, so it can heat up faster and stya hot longer than the others. The Prime's cooling is active; it has fans. The air is drawn in from the cabin, and when it is hot, the car can be set to use the A/C to help cool the battery while charging.

As pointed out, there is no standard on what the manufacturer can report as cargo space. GM's cargo space listing appears to be to the top of the rear seats for the Volt, while the Prime's is space to the ceiling.

That's for marketing. For classifying under the EPA segments, they have to submit the passenger and cargo volumes using the same standards. There the Volt gains about 9 cubic feet of cargo space. Of course, using all that space in it and Prime means stacking stuff above the rear seat back's height, which brings other issues up. Not a problem for a sedan like the Clarity. Plus, the trunk measurement is done by filling it with suitcase analogues. That value is going to be lower than the physical volume that taking measurements does for hatchbacks.
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How much EV driving will this mean for you locally? If near 100%, I'd look at the Bolt, or even the Ioniq Electric. Then just suck up the gas use from the truck for longer trips. The extra gas used could cost less than buying and maintaining an engine that is barely used.

For the tax credit, keep in mind you only get all of it if you owe that much. You might not get the full $7500 for the Volt or Clarity.

If waiting for more BEV options, a used Volt is probably the best bet besides leasing.

It is still much better than a non-hybrid's. Those that come close are much smaller cars.

Is it the onboard charger or the EVSE cord with the 8 amp limit. If the EVSE, it is easy to get one with a higher amp rating. Since they all use the same standard, one from a Prime, Volt, PiP, Leaf, etc will work with the Clarity.

C-max is no more. A 2017 might be found somewhere. They both have a 20 mile EV range. If willing to wait for the 2019 Fusion, it gets the EV range of a Prime.

There also is the Ioniq and Niro PHEVs. Their range matches or beats the Prime, but is shorter than the Clarity. They have a more blended EV operation than the rest though. The Fords can reach the 70's mph before turning on the ICE, and the others higher, if at all. The Hyundai/Kia require gentle acceleration to keep the engine off when climbing over 50mph.

 

If I had OPs priorities my first choice would be the Tesla Model 3,
Second choice the Clarity PHEV
Perhaps third a used Volt (although I am not sure if the safety/goodies are available for his price range.)

 

yea the Kia Nero seems to be decent - w/ SUT type cargo space, warranty, EV range, & better mpg's than the Outlander. Downside (for those who think of it as a down side) would be that it might turn the ICE on more frequently then the Prime. For its price, it's doubtful that it's traction pack is liquid cooled though, like the bold or volt.
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looks like we're back to
Oops - flaky PC servers again

 

Charge mode's only actual benefit is ride enjoyment, i.e. if you like the feel of driving around town in EV mode and you want to experience EV more than what you get with plug in range. However in almost every case you will be paying for that extra EV in gas usage and emissions. I realize it sounds like a good idea to "siphon off" some energy during highway cruise when ICE is underutilized, then use that energy later for in town driving when EV is more efficient. However there are too many energy losses involved to actually make that efficient, at least based on what I have read from the few people who have actually tested how much gasoline charge mode uses.

Interestingly in most Clarity reviews that I have read or watched the reviewer invariably mentions charge mode as a beneficial feature. I suspect the reviewers have no idea that using the feature will likely be a detriment, not a benefit.

So then why does the feature exist at all? I remember someone here conjectured that the manufacturers put it in only because people think they need it, i.e. if they don't include it then the other brands would have a selling advantage. It's just software so not much cost to them to give people what they want, even if they don't actually need it.

I remember someone made a point about European city centers that are EV only, and in theory charge mode would allow PHEV vehicles to drive in those areas. However that's Europe, and also I have not heard if that is actually allowed in Europe, or do they allow only BEV. Allowing PHEV would be problematic because there is no easy way for the police to know if a PHEV is driving on gas or electric.

 

That blanket statement is false.

While on vacation without anywhere to recharge, it provides an undeniable efficiency gain.

You charge up while out on the open road, then take advantage of the electricity later for short trips. Not starting the engine when going out for dinner avoids warm-up entirely... no penalty and use of the engine earlier when it was most efficient.

I did that last week, while dealing with snowy conditions. It was quite clear that the short trips would have consumed more gas overall than what charge-mode used.

 

Yeah I usually avoid definitive statements because they always get me in trouble (oops there I go again, I should have said they 'usually' get me in trouble). In other parts of my message I said "in almost every case" and "using the feature will 'likely' be a detriment, not a benefit." so I thought I was keeping it open but I accidentally worded a couple of sentences in the definitive which was not my intention.

Using charge mode to avoid warmup mode when you know you will later be going out for dinner while on vacation is a good use, but it's fairly technical driving that I suspect the average PHEV owner will not know to do. My point was that the average person will be running charge mode on the highway just so they can switch to EV as soon as they get off the freeway, thinking that is more efficient, which from what I have read people who tested that said you burn more gas than it's worth, and yet that is how I suspect a lot of people are using charge mode.

 

Yep.
And besides, people who want to drive in EV at the destination can just engage HV earlier to hold on to the EV miles and not pay the conversion losses.

I'm a pretty fuel economical driver and I have never seen a reason to bother with charge mode. And one thing is for sure: it is easy to use in a way that *wastes* energy as the majority of posts here attest.

 

But on a long trip or vacation your EV miles can get used up, in which case charge mode can be used. But then it's a balance between the inefficiency of using charge mode vs. gas wasted from warmup mode on short trips. I don't doubt John that when used correctly it can be more efficient in some scenarios.

I think for the average driver that is likely the case.

 

I suppose .. but that is a corner case, and it implies very few EV miles as a fraction of the total.

 

Its battery size is along the range of the Prime and Energi. Air cooling should be fine.

 

well ya - the traction packs are bigger - so of course e braking is greater. Bigger batteries have more room for all that power to return to. Similarly the tesla X regen makes the Volt & Clarity feel anemic. It's is so serious, you could have a 1,000 Lb trailer load going down hill & still one foot drive. That much regen creeps some folks out so much - they have a gentle (what i call the 'snowflake') regen mode, too.
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he said the goal is 50 miles ev.

 

50? He can have my Leaf .... That's all i'd trust it for on a cold morning now days.

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I'll provide simple answer: Prius Prime based on elimination.

Honda Clarity: Honda can't make a reliable automatic transmission for over 20 years, soooo what makes you think they can design a reliable CVT, as such is much more complex!

Volt: It's a CHEV. Nothing will change that fact that it's a Chev and Chev sucks and the interior will be worn in few years.