My wife called me on her cell phone to ask what, "God’s time clock is Israel" was suppose to mean. She read it on a reader-board outside of the local evangelical church. It seems to me that American Christanity is being hijacked in much the same way as Islam is being radicalized. Is the American Right-wing movement calling for World War Three to help fulfill some perceived prophecy?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Jul 31 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]295148[/snapback]</div> Please explain further.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Jul 31 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]295148[/snapback]</div> You nailed it. But we are not going to just sit back and let them immanentize the eschaton!
It sounds like that show on the History channel last night. Wasn't the world supposed to end in 1843? Ooops. Make that 1844. Predictions have happened before. And when nothing happened, an excuse was trotted out and the date was revised. What hubris to think you can predict God's plan. (God didn't write the bible....men did. And men translated it. And men included the parts they wanted and left out what they didn't like. And men had an agenda in mind the entire time they were doing it. So leave the bible out when you're talking about Armegeddon.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Jul 31 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]295148[/snapback]</div> No offense, but if I had a wife ( :lol: ), I would hope I'd get a call that was slightly more amusing... :lol:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 31 2006, 11:28 AM) [snapback]295218[/snapback]</div> This was my exact thoughts after watching both the History Channel piece and Kingdom of Heaven. The bible is nothing more than a fictonalized story about (possible) real life characters. It has been misconstued over time to represent what the individual wanted it to say. There is no way of knowing that it is truth or fiction. I would rather go to hell then heaven if the god in heaven truly wanted all this death and destruction. I do believe that there must be something more than what is in front of us. Religion often has nothing to do with spiritualism, it is about control. Eliminate the ability for these nations to obtain arms; baracades, sanctions, quarrantines. But men like war, for many it is a source of income. For many it is an outlet for their hate, a way for them to have power. War is not about God or heaven.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Jul 31 2006, 09:48 AM) [snapback]295148[/snapback]</div> That's been a recurring theme of some of the conservative Christian churches that focus on "end times" prophecies (or, eschatology). Its all relatively recent in Christiandom, starting about the mid-1800s, IIRC. It differs from the historic Christian view that the church must work to prepare the earth for Jesus to return by promoting good stuff (equity, justice, compassion, etc.) The seminal work that promotes that kind of idea in the modern era is Hal Lindsay's "The Late Great Planet Earth", originally published in the 1970s. It is also at the core of the current "Left Behind" series of Christian fiction books by Tim LaHaye and a co-author who's name escapes me. In the 1970's when I was a "Jesus Freak" it was stated categorically that Isreal was referred to often in the Bible as a fig tree, and the passage in Matthew where Jesus says "Learn the parable of the fig tree, when it puts forth branches, that generation will not pass until the end comes." (that's a really rough paraphrase from memory, so don't fire up the stake burning stuff if I have a few words wrong on that one). The teaching then was that 1948 represented the start of the nation of Isreal (the fig tree putting forth branches), and since a generation in the Bible was always 40 years, then 1988 was the start of the end times, wtih at most 7 years from that date until the Lord's return. I asked for proof that Isreal was referred to as a fig tree, that a generation was 40 years, and that 1948 represented the date to start counting 40 from. You would have thought I was denying the Trinity, Diety of Christ and the atonement. It is very common for conservative Christians to view modern day events as fulfillments of ancient prophecies, but they suffer from the same fate that those trying to make Nostradamus' prophecies fit today's events: they twist the current events and hammer the facts into shape to fit the preconception. The theology is not new, is not dangerous, and is not all that "weird" considering some of the religious movements we've had. I think its in error, but then I'm called a heretic by those that hold a "pre tribulation rapture" model.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Salsawonder @ Jul 31 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]295326[/snapback]</div> 1) Maybe we should just take it at it's word then and quit trying to place our own spin on it? 2) God does not want death and destruction but He gives us free will and sometimes D&D is the result. 3) Yes, sadly a majority of the time religion is about control see #2 free will above and #4 civil power below. 4) Add religion and civil power and you always get #2 & #3 above. 5) War is not about God or heaven. Amen! 6) History repeats itself. Wildkow
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 31 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]295550[/snapback]</div> Pretty good memory! That is Matthew 24:32 and Jesus was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by the invading Roman hordes, and this passage also pertains to the events leading to the end times, I'm almost totally sure of this. I believe the defining sign is that the gospel/message/bible/word goes out to all nations and then the end shall come. Considering that we now have the internet I believe we are close or there now. Hang on Baby! Some of us are in for a Hell of a ride! :lol: Wildkow p.s. Your right about hammering stuff into a preconception. That is why I enjoyed the "Left Behind" series as fiction because you really have to hammer the Bible to get the rapture theory which is what their series is based upon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 1 2006, 01:02 AM) [snapback]295587[/snapback]</div> I get it ... you see the "fig tree" as the Word of God. Interesting take on the prophecy. The traditional view is your first statement, that of the temple's destruction in 70 AD. I didn't know what replaced the "fig tree=Isreal" after 1993 (1988 plus 7 years) for the eschatalogical folks (if that's a word!) No matter, the death rate is still one per person, so we all are facing the end of the world. Those of us who try to drive the speed limit in the HOV lanes are probably facing it sooner than others ...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Aug 1 2006, 11:40 PM) [snapback]296134[/snapback]</div> Actually I see the "Fig Tree" or the "budding of the fig tree" as the signs of the times or expected events being fulfilled. So a rough parallel would be that the "Fig Tree" or the prophetic word of God is indeed being fulfilled. Once that happens head for the hills! As it turns out the Romans surrounded Jerusalem and lay siege, withdrew for a brief period, christians escaped, Romans returned and sack the city. End of story, the point being that christians paid heed to Jesus prophecy and escaped while the Jews thinking that God would never allow the city or temple would fall did not believe the words of Jesus and perished in the ransack of the city. Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and keep it, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. All time prophecy ended in about the 1840's, after the 2300 days elapsed as mention in Daniel and Revelation. So when I hear anything to do with prophecy that has a date or a time period after that period I am suspicious. Wildkow p.s. This quote (Rev 3:3) has nothing to do with the rapture BTW.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Aug 2 2006, 12:43 PM) [snapback]296345[/snapback]</div> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Aug 2 2006, 09:43 AM) [snapback]296345[/snapback]</div> What rapture? :huh:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Aug 2 2006, 09:43 AM) [snapback]296345[/snapback]</div> Wildkow and I may be the only two Christians left that don't believe in what I call the "modern heresy, the Rapture". So we'll still be here if bad stuff happens (along with a whole lot of dissolusioned folks wondering if they missed the party ...)
