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Featured E.P.A. Prepares to Roll Back Rules Requiring Cars to Be Cleaner and More Efficient

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by pilotgrrl, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Worth noting that 54.5 MPG doesn't mean 54.5 MPG.

    It means 54.5 MPG gasoline equivalent combined on the 1978 test standards, that CAFE uses for its averages.

    In practice, this translates to somewhere around the high 30s to 40 MPG combined in the current test standards.

    For comparison, the Gen 4 Prius gets 74.0 MPG combined on the 1978 cycle, and the Gen 4 Prius Eco gets 80.8 MPG combined on the 1978 cycle.

    Here's a list of all model year 2018 conventionally-fueled vehicles that meet or exceed 54.5 MPG combined on the 1978 standards. No plugs, no hydrogen, just gasoline.

    upload_2018-4-3_7-46-46.png

    (There's no diesels here, but it's worth noting that diesels need to get even higher efficiency, due to higher energy content and CO2 emissions per gallon.)

    Also consider that EVs and PHEVs help the averages a lot, too. And, for the crossover crazy, I expect the RAV4 Hybrid to be on the 2019 version of this list, or if not, very close to 54.5 MPG.

    Basically, 54.5 MPG wasn't ridiculous, the automakers just needed to hybridize.
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Thank you yes 83.5 MPG on the Prius 2-eco is not too shabby.
    Your data also shows the 2018 Camry/Accord comparison I was looking for.
    My wife wants the Camry.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Thanks for the chart. Its not just the test, there are bonuses too, and different catagories based on footprints.

    No SUVs, No pick up trucks without a plug or hydrogen.
    Actually the tesla model X and hyundai tucson fuel cell meet the 2025 standard.


    Well no, the corporate average fuel economy rules make a gallon of diesel the same for mpg compliance regulations, one of the problems with it.
    Can We Hit the Target?: The 54.5-MPG Fuel-Economy Standard Looms Large – Feature – Car and Driver
    [​IMG]
    A diesel and a couple of hybrids can meet 2021 standards, but it likely needs to be a phev or bev or fcv to meet 2025 standards.
    How the EPA is Helping Carmakers Hit 2025’s 54.5-mpg CAFE Standard

    It actually is sort of ridiculous. Remember the mix changed too as well as much lower gas prices than expected when the regulations were passed. That means that even if the rules stayed the same the goal of average fuel economy would not have hit its target. The diesel, hybrid, and turbo charging small engine bonuses do not reflect actual gains in the real world. Still pruitt if he isn't fired is likely to simply rip up the regulation instead of fixing it.
    Trump EPA will revise Obama fuel efficiency rules for autos

    With the bonuses it definitely is doable if enough phevs and fuel cell vehicles are sold, but that won't really reduce oil use as much as the 54.5 mpg standard implies.
     
    #23 austingreen, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm pretty sure the lawsuit between California and Pruitt will suspend Pruitt's actions until well after the next election.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Of course, all these figures are out the window, until the majority of drivers are willing to adjust their driving to a more conservative style. Wolfpacks are caused by people driving 65-85 mph, brakelights are caused by excessive speeds, tailgating causes unnecessary braking and corresponding accelerator pedal pushes. To say nothing of unnecessary anxiety. When all our driving movements are totally controlled by some sort of Governor, official and electronic, only then can we reach higher standards than present rules suggest. Who is causing this chaos? the average driver. The double nickel ( 55mph ) was a good idea. It will return. Like it or NOT.
     
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  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    There are lots of lawsuits between California and the federal government. I don't think there is one for this, nor do I think California has a leg to stand on if it tried a lawsuit here. California has no extra rights to regulate federal fuel economy standards compared to any other state. They were granted an epa waiver to set them in their own state, which may be rescinded, which might cause a suite. The more likely outcome is divergent rules in 2022, where automakers are encouraged to game the system. This likely will have to happen in 2019 as epa is going to get feedback as it tells automakers its killing the 2025 standard.

    The reason the camels nose got under the tent in this case is automakers don't want 2 standards - 1 for 14 carb states, and 1 for the 36 other states and average for the country. Ford and Honda want a compromise as they are already making changes to comply with the cafe rules, and like the current loopholes.

    Reasonable people would modify the rules and add a oil or fuel tax to actually increase the US fleets fuel economy. We have two unreasonable people heading their agencies and I don't think we will get a good compromise.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Just a thought: at the end of this, could it get a lot easier to get a reasonably priced replacement catalytic converter in California? Or is that not reversable?

    OTOH, maybe their hybrid battery warranty extensions will vapourize?
     
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  8. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Do we need a CC on Bevs and hybrids ?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Yeah anything with a gas engine has them I think.
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    This is about regulating fuel economy not unhealthy pollution. Which means it has nothing at all to do with catalytic converters. This does not change that it will cost you more to replace a cat in california than any other state, at least if you comply with state regulations.
    When an average guy tries to buy catalytic converters for his Ford Mustang in CA | Torque News

    Also this has nothing to do with that either, although hybrids will likely be less expensive in california than texas if standards are set differently and manufacturers get a bonus if a car is sold in california.

    On this note though, recent testing shows tier one gasoline vehicles made after 2000 pollute less than models would have you believe because of bad test procedures, while diesels and tier 2 gasoline vehicle produce more than models would suggest.
     
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  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    Note they only show the Hybrid Camry LE. The higher trim Hybrid Camry have lower mileage ratings.
    The Hybrid Camry LE has the same EPA rating as the Prius Liftback (non-ECO)
     
  12. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    Mr. Pruitt had been expected to publicly announce the effort on Tuesday at a Chevrolet dealership in suburban Virginia. But those plans were complicated by an angry pushback from some Chevy dealerships who were reluctant to see the brand associated with the announcement, according to two Chevy dealers who spoke on condition of anonymity, citing their relationship with General Motors. Late on Monday, the Virginia dealership, Pohanka Chevrolet in Chantilly, said the E.P.A. event it had planned to host had been canceled.

    “They don’t want the E.P.A. to highlight Chevy,” said Adam Lee, chairman of Lee Auto Malls, which runs Nissan, Honda and Chrysler dealerships in Maine, and who said he was familiar with dealers’ thinking. “They don’t want to be the bad guys.”

    “Trump has been saying these standards are crushing the auto industry. But we’ve had record years for the past four or five years, in terms of sales and profit,” he said. “It almost makes you think he doesn’t have the facts.”

    Calling Car Pollution Standards ‘Too High,’ E.P.A. Sets Up Fight With California https://nyti.ms/2H3A8yf

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  13. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I am little confused where we stand, but from a recent thread it sounds like we might have already lost the CARB extension on the Prii.

    Quite shocking we here missed that development. We need to check all of the WMG guides to see where we stand. At least some Prius c's model years seem to be missing that.
     
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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Inspired by @bhtooefr , who did it right from the Test Car database. I downloaded the fueleconomy.gov version to took all models with 54.5 MPG or higher and ordered them by manufacturer and model:

    Make Model MPG
    1 BMW 328d 65.6
    2 BMW 328d xDrive 59.8
    3 BMW 328d xDrive Sports Wagon 59.1
    4 BMW X5 xDrive40e 395.4
    5 CHEVROLET BOLT 182.2
    6 CHEVROLET CRUZE 77.0
    7 CHEVROLET EQUINOX AWD 56.5
    8 CHEVROLET EQUINOX FWD 58.3
    9 CHEVROLET MALIBU 68.3
    10 CHEVROLET SONIC 55.0
    11 CHEVROLET SONIC 5 10000.0
    12 CHEVROLET SPARK 56.9
    13 CHEVROLET VOLT 82.0
    14 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid 111.4
    15 Ford C-Max (HEV) 58.0
    16 Ford FOCUS 56.6
    17 Ford Focus 59.4
    18 Ford FOCUS 169.2
    19 Ford Fusion (HEV) 62.7
    20 Ford Fusion (PHEV) 61.3
    21 HONDA ACCORD 57.0
    22 HONDA CIVIC 2.0L 59.7
    23 HONDA CIVIC 2DR COUPE 1.5L 60.0
    24 HONDA CIVIC 4DR SEDAN 1.5L 61.3
    25 HONDA CIVIC 4DR SEDAN 2.0L 59.8
    26 HONDA CIVIC 5DR 58.5
    27 HONDA CIVIC Si 55.9
    28 HONDA Clarity Plug-in Hybrid 167.9
    29 HONDA FIT 58.6
    30 HYUNDAI ACCENT 57.3
    31 Hyundai Elantra 58.8
    32 HYUNDAI IONIQ 79.1
    33 HYUNDAI IONIQ PHEV 72.3
    34 Jaguar XE 63.2
    35 Jaguar XE AWD 59.9
    36 Kia Forte 56.6
    37 KIA NIRO 68.2
    38 KIA Niro Plug-in 63.9
    39 KIA Optima 54.8
    40 KIA Optima Hybrid 63.0
    41 KIA OPTIMA PLUG-IN HYBRID 60.4
    42 KIA Rio 55.1
    43 LEXUS ES 300h 57.4
    44 MAZDA MAZDA2 61.7
    45 MAZDA MAZDA3 55.6
    46 Mercedes-Benz C 350e 88.7
    47 Mercedes-Benz Smart Fortwo Electric Drive (convertible) 165.1
    48 Mercedes-Benz Smart Fortwo Electric Drive (coupe) 182.6
    49 Mini MINI COOPER HARDTOP 2 DOOR 55.7
    50 Mini MINI COOPER HARDTOP 4 DOOR 55.7
    51 MINI Mini Cooper SE Countryman ALL4 122.8
    52 MITSUBISHI MIRAGE 64.7
    53 MITSUBISHI MIRAGE G4 62.3
    54 MITSUBISHI OUTLANDER PHEV 111.7
    55 NISSAN ALTIMA 55.0
    56 NISSAN SENTRA 56.3
    57 NISSAN VERSA 58.9
    58 SUBARU IMPREZA 4-Door 57.1
    59 TOYOTA CAMRY 61.8
    60 TOYOTA CAMRY HYBRID LE 73.1
    61 TOYOTA CAMRY HYBRID XLE/SE 64.5
    62 TOYOTA CAMRY LE/SE 61.4
    63 TOYOTA CAMRY XLE/XSE 58.2
    64 TOYOTA COROLLA LE ECO 58.6
    65 TOYOTA PRIUS 78.0
    66 TOYOTA PRIUS c 69.0
    67 TOYOTA PRIUS Eco 84.1
    68 VOLKSWAGEN Jetta 59.4

    But when I graph it, these are the top 5% of all makes and models. FYI, I don't know what happened to the Ioniq Blue and Prius Prime that should have been in the downloaded file.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #34 bwilson4web, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Bob where do the numbers come from. Some don't look right, but I haven't seen a list. For example the bmw 328d looks to be about 50 mpg cafe from the car and driver chart, but you have it as 65.6 . I am unsure where you or they got their numbers though ;-)
     
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  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    #36 bwilson4web, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    That does not looks right. The Camry Hybrid LE & the Prius have the same EPA ratings IIRC.
     
  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    hmm. epa for the 328d is 36 mpg. I don't see the raw numbers (could be my eyes) or formula. This should equate to around 49 mpg though, maybe 50 mpg if its got a start stop system in cafe, not the 65 that you have. If you have the old hwy and old city from the 2 cycle test in the data, maybe we can work it.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I made a similar table from the other file:
    Division Carline City FE (Guide) Hwy FE (Guide) Comb FE (Guide) City Unadj FE Hwy Unadj FE Comb Unadj FE max
    1 BMW 328d xDrive 30 40 34 39.3 59.2 46.3 59.2
    2 BMW 328d xDrive Sports Wagon 30 40 34 39.3 59.2 46.3 59.2
    3 BMW 328d 31 43 36 41.6 64.8 49.6 64.8
    4 Chevrolet SONIC 28 37 32 36.7 55.0 43.2 55.0
    5 Chevrolet SONIC 5 28 37 32 36.7 55.0 43.2 55.0
    6 Chevrolet SPARK 30 38 33 39.8 55.1 45.5 55.1
    7 Chevrolet SPARK ACTIV 30 37 33 39.8 55.1 45.5 55.1
    8 Chevrolet EQUINOX AWD 28 38 32 36.6 56.5 43.5 56.5
    9 Chevrolet SPARK 29 39 33 38.9 56.9 45.4 56.9
    10 Chevrolet SPARK ACTIV 29 38 32 38.9 56.9 45.4 56.9
    11 Chevrolet EQUINOX FWD 28 39 32 36.0 57.8 43.4 57.8
    12 Chevrolet CRUZE 29 40 33 38.9 58.6 45.8 58.6
    13 Chevrolet CRUZE HATCHBACK 29 38 32 38.9 58.6 45.8 58.6
    14 Chevrolet CRUZE PREMIER 29 39 33 38.9 58.6 45.8 58.6
    15 Chevrolet CRUZE PREMIER HATCHBACK 28 37 31 38.9 58.6 45.8 58.6
    16 Chevrolet CRUZE 27 40 32 35.5 59.8 43.4 59.8
    17 Chevrolet CRUZE HATCHBACK 27 38 31 35.5 59.8 43.4 59.8
    18 Chevrolet MALIBU 49 43 46 68.3 60.4 64.5 68.3
    19 Chevrolet CRUZE 31 47 37 40.5 70.2 50.0 70.2
    20 Chevrolet CRUZE HATCHBACK 30 45 35 40.5 70.2 50.0 70.2
    21 Chevrolet CRUZE 30 52 37 40.2 77.0 51.2 77.0
    22 Chevrolet CRUZE HATCHBACK 29 48 35 40.2 77.0 51.2 77.0
    23 Ford FOCUS FWD 26 38 31 34.4 56.6 41.8 56.6
    24 Ford FOCUS FWD 27 38 31 36.1 57.1 43.2 57.1
    25 Ford C-MAX Hybrid FWD 42 38 40 58.0 56.3 57.2 58.0
    26 Ford FOCUS FWD 30 40 34 39.5 59.4 46.5 59.4
    27 Ford FUSION HYBRID FWD 43 41 42 62.0 62.4 62.2 62.4
    28 GMC TERRAIN AWD 28 38 32 36.6 56.5 43.5 56.5
    29 GMC TERRAIN FWD 28 39 32 36.0 57.8 43.4 57.8
    30 Honda CIVIC 2Dr 28 39 32 34.3 54.9 41.3 54.9
    31 Honda CIVIC 2Dr 28 38 32 36.5 55.9 43.3 55.9
    32 Honda CIVIC 4Dr 28 38 32 36.5 55.9 43.3 55.9
    33 Honda ACCORD 30 38 33 39.8 56.4 45.9 56.4
    34 Honda CIVIC 4Dr 28 40 32 34.6 56.5 42.0 56.5
    35 Honda CIVIC 2Dr 30 39 34 39.8 58.4 46.4 58.4
    36 Honda FIT 33 40 36 43.8 58.4 49.4 58.4
    37 Honda CIVIC 5Dr 31 40 34 40.8 58.7 47.3 58.7
    38 Honda CIVIC 2Dr 31 40 35 40.8 58.7 47.3 58.7
    39 Honda CIVIC 4Dr 31 40 34 40.4 59.0 47.1 59.0
    40 Honda CIVIC 2Dr 30 41 35 38.4 59.8 45.8 59.8
    41 Honda CIVIC 4Dr 32 42 36 41.5 60.9 48.5 60.9
    42 Honda CIVIC 4Dr 31 42 35 38.7 61.0 46.3 61.0
    43 Honda ACCORD 47 47 47 67.5 69.5 68.4 69.5
    44 HYUNDAI Accent 28 37 31 36.1 54.9 42.7 54.9
    45 HYUNDAI Elantra SE 29 38 33 38.2 56.5 44.8 56.5
    46 HYUNDAI Accent 28 38 32 36.8 56.7 43.7 56.7
    47 HYUNDAI Elantra 32 40 35 41.4 58.8 47.8 58.8
    48 HYUNDAI Sonata HYBRID 39 44 41 55.9 64.0 59.3 64.0
    49 HYUNDAI Sonata HYBRID SE 40 46 42 56.0 64.0 59.3 64.0
    50 HYUNDAI Ioniq 55 54 55 72.4 74.9 73.5 74.9
    51 HYUNDAI Ioniq Blue 57 59 58 75.7 79.1 77.2 79.1
    52 Jaguar XE AWD 30 40 34 39.9 59.9 47.0 59.9
    53 Jaguar XF AWD 30 40 34 39.9 59.9 47.0 59.9
    54 Jaguar XF 31 42 35 41.3 62.3 48.7 62.3
    55 Jaguar XE 32 42 36 42.6 63.2 49.9 63.2
    56 KIA Forte 29 37 32 37.7 54.8 43.8 54.8
    57 KIA Optima 28 37 31 36.3 54.8 42.8 54.8
    58 KIA Rio 29 37 32 37.5 54.9 43.7 54.9
    59 KIA Rio 28 37 32 36.9 54.9 43.3 54.9
    60 KIA Niro Touring 46 40 43 60.0 58.4 59.3 60.0
    61 KIA Optima Hybrid 39 46 42 54.0 62.8 57.6 62.8
    62 KIA Niro 51 46 49 65.7 62.5 64.2 65.7
    63 KIA Niro FE 52 49 50 68.2 66.2 67.3 68.2
    64 LEXUS ES 300h 40 39 40 56.1 54.2 55.2 56.1
    65 Lincoln MKZ HYBRID FWD 41 38 40 62.0 62.4 62.2 62.4
    66 MAZDA MAZDA3 4-Door 28 38 31 36.2 55.6 42.9 55.6
    67 MAZDA MAZDA2 30 39 34 41.0 57.7 47.1 57.7
    68 MAZDA MAZDA2 32 40 35 42.8 58.9 48.8 58.9
    69 Mini COOPER CONVERTIBLE 28 37 32 36.8 55.1 43.2 55.1
    70 Mini COOPER HARDTOP 4 DOOR 28 37 32 36.8 55.1 43.2 55.1
    71 Mini COOPER HARDTOP 2 DOOR 28 38 32 36.3 55.7 43.0 55.7
    72 Mitsubishi MIRAGE G4 33 40 35 43.7 58.9 49.5 58.9
    73 Mitsubishi MIRAGE 33 41 36 44.7 60.4 50.6 60.4
    74 Mitsubishi MIRAGE G4 35 41 37 46.6 61.7 52.4 61.7
    75 Mitsubishi MIRAGE 37 43 39 50.4 64.4 55.9 64.4
    76 NISSAN SENTRA 29 37 32 37.8 55.7 44.2 55.7
    77 NISSAN VERSA 31 39 34 41.2 57.5 47.2 57.5
    78 Subaru IMPREZA 4-Door 28 38 32 36.4 55.4 43.1 55.4
    79 TOYOTA COROLLA LE ECO 29 38 33 38.9 55.3 44.9 55.3
    80 TOYOTA AVALON HYBRID 40 39 40 56.1 54.2 55.2 56.1
    81 TOYOTA CAMRY LE/SE 28 39 32 36.7 57.7 43.9 57.7
    82 TOYOTA CAMRY XLE/XSE 28 39 32 37.0 58.1 44.2 58.1
    83 TOYOTA COROLLA LE ECO 30 40 34 40.5 58.6 47.0 58.6
    84 TOYOTA YARIS iA 30 39 34 40.9 59.3 47.6 59.3
    85 TOYOTA YARIS iA 32 40 35 43.0 60.1 49.3 60.1
    86 TOYOTA CAMRY 29 41 34 39.1 61.8 46.8 61.8
    87 TOYOTA CAMRY HYBRID XLE/SE 44 47 46 61.7 64.5 62.9 64.5
    88 TOYOTA PRIUS c 48 43 46 68.9 64.0 66.6 68.9
    89 TOYOTA CAMRY HYBRID LE 51 53 52 71.6 71.8 71.7 71.8
    90 TOYOTA PRIUS 54 50 52 76.1 71.6 74.0 76.1
    91 TOYOTA PRIUS Eco 58 53 56 83.6 77.8 80.8 83.6
    92 Volkswagen Jetta 28 38 32 36.3 56.1 43.2 56.1
    93 Volkswagen Jetta 28 40 33 37.3 59.4 44.8 59.4

    Bob Wilson
     
    #39 bwilson4web, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Converted @bwilson4web 's list (in post #34) to an Excel spreadsheet, say if you want to reorder just by mpg.
     

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