Over priced dealer Rogers and Rogers Toyota - Escondido, CA

Was contacted by Rogers and Rogers toyota in Imperial, CA about a prius today. I don't like the fact that dealers charge way over MRSP.

They have a #3 and are selling it for $3K over MSRP. It has a few extra accessories so they can get every last dime out of you that they can. He also said they were previously selling the same vehicles at $5K over MSRP but he convinced "the powers that be" that $3K was fair. I guess I should have felt like I was getting a bargain.

I advise to stay away from slimy dealers like Rogers and Rogers toyota in imperial, CA. Dealers should not screw their customer base like this.

-drew

 

here is the reply from the sales rep at Rogers and Rogers.

"Drew: Trust me you are not being screwed, nor is anyone else that
is in the market for this new technology. I'm quite suprised that
the typical consumer base thats in ("denial") of the supply/demand
curve would assume such a position. Did you know that in the
initial stages of development that it cost Toyota upwards of $50,000
to build this vehicle? I bet you didn't. I would also wager that
you don't feel that there is anything wrong with bargaining down
from MSRP on any other non hybrid vehicle. In fact you would feel
perfectly happy knowing that your dealership didn't make a penny on
any vehicle that they had in their inventory, or if the sales
representative was able to earn a dime to support his/her family.
What about your wages...your companies products/services...do you
charge too much, or do you charge what the market will bear? This
$3000 over MSRP isn't my position, it is my companies, and quite
frankly, I don't feel that they are doing anything wrong. If yo
u don't like the programming, change the channel, if you don't like
the price, don't buy it. Wait, like so many others until the
inventory levels are such that you can haggle, and hassle for a
price below MSRP...You could be waiting a while. Complain to
Donald Trump, or Bill Gates. Were just simple people trying to
survive in a highly competitive market amoung sharks that are hell
bent on putting us out of business. Sorry that you feel that way.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
Jerry "



-drew

 

first, i made a mistake. the dealer is in Imperial, CA. I correct my initial post. Can a mod change the topic?

here was my reply to jerry

"jerry,

Let’s not jump to conclusions and keep our facts straight.

1. you do not know me, my attitude, my career, my employer.
2. toyota has set a guideline price that gives your dealership a built in profit.

[email protected] said:
> Drew: Trust me you are not being screwed, nor is anyone else that
> is in the market for this new technology. I'm quite suprised that
> the typical consumer base thats in ("denial") of the supply/demand
> curve would assume such a position.

I am not in denial. I am well aware how the supply/demand process works. I am merely pointing out that you are alienating not only toyota's customer base but your own dealership's by over charging and forcing additional options that the client doesn't want just so you can increase your mark up even more. That's exploitation of supply/demand and not something I want my dealership, to which I am giving nearly $30,000 to, to exhibit. Your dealership's shady practices will probably come back to haunt you.

>Did you know that in the
> initial stages of development that it cost Toyota upwards of $50,000
> to build this vehicle? I bet you didn't.

Ahh, so is this why you are marking it up $3,000? So you can give the money back to Toyota Corporate? Let’s not get into what I do and what I don’t know. I’ve done a lot of research and have a fairly good grasp of what is going on.

>I would also wager that
> you don't feel that there is anything wrong with bargaining down
> from MSRP on any other non hybrid vehicle. In fact you would feel
> perfectly happy knowing that your dealership didn't make a penny on
> any vehicle that they had in their inventory, or if the sales
> representative was able to earn a dime to support his/her family.

Now see, this is where you start to get silly. Bargaining down from MSRP is common practice. Prices are inflated on MSRP so the dealer can get a profit. Dealers choose how much of a cut they want to take in order to make the sale. Not only that, but dealers also get an "advertising" kick back on each vehicle from corporate in order to promote sales.

I know dealerships do need to make a profit on each car. I would never get a car if the dealer was making no profit on the transaction. I know this, and it's only fair to give the dealer a certain percentage profit on the transaction. Please do not put my ideals or integrity into question. I have a pretty good idea of what's fair and what's not.

Or, maybe you are overcharging $3,000 to make up the bad deals you seem to be making and support your family once again. I'm not sure, just using your argument to try to explain all of this.

> What about your wages...your companies products/services...do you
> charge too much, or do you charge what the market will bear?

My wages have nothing to do with this other than qualifying for a loan to buy a car. Ditto for my employer. For all you know, I work for a non-profit organization helping community clinics.

>This $3000 over MSRP isn't my position, it is my companies, and quite
> frankly, I don't feel that they are doing anything wrong. If yo
> u don't like the programming, change the channel, if you don't like
> the price, don't buy it.

I'm confused why you want your customer base to "change the channel" as you say. Do you not want sales to come in? I understand corporate is not sending a lot of these. I'm talking about future customer base when it's time for them to get another car. Are they going to go back to the dealer that exploited their buying position before? If you don't feel they are doing anything wrong, well, I guess that speaks a lot for your integrity and honesty.

>Wait, like so many others until the
> inventory levels are such that you can haggle, and hassle for a
> price below MSRP...You could be waiting a while.

Actually, I'm picking up my tideland pearl #9 for MSRP this weekend! I'm glad I took the time to find a dealer that is not exploiting the situation and understands the value of preserving their customer base.

>Complain to
> Donald Trump, or Bill Gates. Were just simple people trying to
> survive in a highly competitive market amoung sharks that are hell
> bent on putting us out of business. Sorry that you feel that way.
> Wake up and smell the coffee.
> Jerry

Do you insult all your customers this way or am I a special situation? I don't feel that donald and bill are the crux of the situation at hand. The fact of the matter is that your dealership is being very greedy and exploiting the situation. There are honest dealers out there and there are shady dealers out there. Please don't get mad at me if you guys are taking a less than honest stance on the whole thing.

I'll be sure to let people know to stay away.

thanks,
Drew"

 

thanks, all. yes, these are actual email transactions. jerry has replied to me a couple of times. i could continue to point out the flaws in his arguments but i'm done going back and forth with him. o hell, this guy makes it too easy. i'll post my reply in a bit.

-drew

__________________________________

"Drew: No one is being allienated, nor is anyone being taken advantage of. I agree, it is common practice to haggle/negotiate over car deals. (This occured with the advent of the internet). Thanks to some idiot for putting invoice cost out there for all to see. Now no one's product is worth what is printed on the window any more, because no is willing to pay it. Retail is retail, and whether you are willing to accept it or not, this is the only industry where customers want to negotiate off of the asking price. McDonalds hamburgers are marked up over 100%, no one complains, jewelry is marked up over 3000% no one complains, there are so many other commodities in our market place that are retailed every minute of the day, and no one compalins. The reason...their cost isn't splashed all over the internet. Who decided that a retail auto dealer isn't entitled to make a fair profit? Also, I beg to differ with you about advertising cost from the manufacturer...we pay that c ost...we also pay for each day that our vehicle is in our inventory, we pay for destination and handeling, there are all sorts of internal cost that go into a auto retail operation. It's just a business like any other. We're not trying to make up any loss to any other transaction and we run a ethical business. We are not forcing customers to accept anything that they dont want. Whats on the vehicle is on the vehicle, it came from the factory that way...we didn't add anything. Exploitation of supply and demand is par for the course...you know that Drew, and prices are inflated on all retail items, anywhere you look in the market place. What exactly, are you expecting to convey Drew??? I don't get your position. I think that you want to segregate the "AUTOMOBILE" industry from all other retail. Consumers have a choice to buy or not to buy, but don't blame the merchant for excercising their right to make a profit and a living. We are a licenced franchise Toyota dealer , and we don't take kick backs from anyone. The profit is the profit. Invoice to MSRP...maybe all of us should just stop bargaining below MSRP and stick to our guns regardless of what's on the internet. Maybe then you'll be more appreciative of what we give away every day. Yeh, Yeh, Yeh...Non Profit Organization...even they make a profit. Some one's got to get paid...you don't get something for nothing in this world. Now, who's kidding who Drew??? Drew; were not greedy, or shady, nor are we unethical and certainly, our customer base is important to us. I would hope that we are dealing with intelligent people whom realize the limited availability on this product, and are happy to get one, rather than waiting over a year for one. At least we don't have a waiting list. We are first come first serve, and the customers that respond to the Prius's that we get seem to understand perfectly...Time is money, and they don't want to wait. Glad you got yours. Enjoy.
Jerry"

 

ok, hopefully this is the last installment, i really shouldn't waste any more work time on this =] and i probably wouldn't have replied but he emailed me twice since mine! so, it's like mandatory or something.

will toyota really listen if i lodge a complaint against this dealer for their selling practices?

enjoy.

_________________________________________________

"Jerry,

In your previous email you noted that we should be done but this came in and I could not resist.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 2:57 PM
>
>Drew: No one is being allienated, nor is anyone being taken advantage of. >I agree, it is common practice to haggle/negotiate over car deals. (This >occured with the advent of the internet). Thanks to some idiot for putting >invoice cost out there for all to see.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think this was occurring long before the internet. I'm pretty sure Consumer Reports was giving out this information well before the internet became main stream. Regardless, I'm not sure how hiding the invoice "behind the scenes", so to speak, would make things better. I don't think this necessarily hurts the industry. I mean, it's not like dealers are dropping left and right since "the advent of the internet".

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Now no one's product is worth what is printed on the window any more, >because no is willing to pay it. Retail is retail, and whether you are >willing to accept it or not, this is the only industry where customers want >to negotiate off of the asking price.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I disagree with this. Sure, if you go to Circuit City or Best Buy, retail is retail. There are so many places to do comparison shopping out there now that you can often find prices on goods significantly below retail price. And by retail I am referring to MSRP. How often do you really pay for things at MSRP in a store? The auto industry is not the only industry where customers want to negotiate price. I negotiate with the flooring installer, vendors at work, camera shop... etc.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>McDonalds hamburgers are marked up over 100%, no one complains, jewelry is >marked up over 3000% no one complains, there are so many other commodities >in our market place that are retailed every minute of the day, and no one >compalins. The reason...their cost isn't splashed all over the internet.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ok, I'm going to throw the jewelry example out the window since I don't buy into the DeBeers empire. There are tons of things that are marked up over their RAW cost value. That's the only way they can be in business. I never said Auto dealers can't/shouldn't make a profit off a sale. That is something you brought to the table. My point, again, is that you are exploiting the situation.

In your example you describe mark-up from McDonald's. If I can take it and relate it to our situation; It would be like McDonald's setting up shop in Ethiopia and charging $50 a hamburger. Hey, supply and demand, right?

Also, I still fail to see what the internet has to do with anything. Do you have something against the internet? Are you still on dial-up or something?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Who decided that a retail auto dealer isn't entitled to make a fair >profit?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't know, you keep bringing this up, I never said that. The dealer I am working with is getting a more than fair profit just by me paying MSRP.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Also, I beg to differ with you about advertising cost from the >manufacturer...we pay that cost...we also pay for each day that our vehicle >is in our inventory, we pay for destination and handeling, there are all >sorts of internal cost that go into a auto retail operation. It's just a >business like any other.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, jerry, I know it's a business. If you do not receive an advertising supplement, then I take that statement back. The way you describe it, it's like your dealership is struggling to make ends meet and over charging on the prius is your way to make up for everything. How were you guys paying for all these things before you were charging $3,000 over MSRP on a single vehicle?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> We're not trying to make up any loss to any other transaction and we run >a ethical business. We are not forcing customers to accept anything that >they dont want. Whats on the vehicle is on the vehicle, it came from the >factory that way...we didn't add anything. Exploitation of supply and >demand is par for the course...you know that Drew, and prices are inflated >on all retail items, anywhere you look in the market place.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't think the bumper appliqué and the preferred accessory package are standard from the factory.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>What exactly, are you expecting to convey Drew??? I don't get your >position. I think that you want to segregate the "AUTOMOBILE" industry >from all other retail. Consumers have a choice to buy or not to buy, but >don't blame the merchant for excercising their right to make a profit and a >living. We are a licenced franchise Toyota dealer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am trying to convey my distaste of your sales practices. I don't think Toyota Corporate would be thrilled about it either. My position is that your profit margin is a bit sky high and insulting to the consumer base. Just because you could charge $5K over MSRP does not mean it is right or the best strategy for your dealership. Yes, consumers have a choice to buy or not buy, I totally agree. I exercise that right on a daily basis.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Invoice to MSRP...maybe all of us should just stop bargaining below MSRP >and stick to our guns regardless of what's on the internet. Maybe then >you'll be more appreciative of what we give away every day.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not sure how your dealership runs, but if you are giving compensations away and losing money in the overall process, perhaps this should be evaluated instead of making the prius the temporary solution.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Yeh, Yeh, Yeh...Non Profit Organization...even they make a profit. Some >one's got to get paid...you don't get something for nothing in this world. >Now, who's kidding who Drew???
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess you've never worked for a non-profit organization. There is no "profit" like there is in a typical corporation. Things are charged back to clients/customers practically at and sometimes below cost (grants and donations help supplement direct and indirect costs).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Drew; were not greedy, or shady, nor are we unethical and certainly, our >customer base is important to us. I would hope that we are dealing with >intelligent people whom realize the limited availability on this product, >and are happy to get one, rather than waiting over a year for one.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your sales practices are showing otherwise. It is putting aside fairness to the customer and taking advantage of their wallets and desires.

I am very happy to get mine! I had to wait a little bit (3 months) but I spent some time and found a dealer I was comfortable with. I can handle the 3 month wait knowing I will still be happy in the years to come with my purchasing decision. I'm not so sure a lot of people could say that if they spent $3,000 over MSRP. This is where your customer base will eventually turn away from you. The vision at your dealership is very short sighted in this respect.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>At least we don't have a waiting list. We are first come first serve, and >the customers that respond to the Prius's that we get seem to understand >perfectly...Time is money, and they don't want to wait. Glad you got >yours. Enjoy.
>Jerry
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now I'm kind of confused how exactly you sell your cars. The fact that you don't have a waiting list is not at all surprising. This made me think that maybe you just order the cars in and call around to see who wants them. Giving them some sort of urgency to commit and not think so much about the $3,000 mark up over MSRP. Shady.

Ok, let's not go back and forth again about supply/demand or how your dealership doesn't make a profit cause the internet is revealing your trade secrets. I think my point has been made. If you still don't "get it" we can continue this, but, like you said 2 emails ago, let's agree to disagree. I have a lot of work to do, and you have a lot of people to call. I'll even send you pictures of my prius and myself if you want.

Thanks,
Drew"