Does God (or Allah or Yahweh) Have a "Chosen People"?

No. He does not.

However, I am also of the belief that God does not hate.

Crazy, I know. And I'm a preacher.

 

Call me crazy but I think it's pretty self absorbed and ego centric of us to think that God has nothing better to do than pay attention to every petty detail of every human on this planet 24/7. I'm sure he has more important things to do. That is why he gave us free will.

As for chosen? He set up some basic parameters. If you meet them you're chosen. And I'm talking God's basic requirements, not the political or social restrictions and agendas of humans looking to cash in on some prestige or power. So....you won't really know if you're chosen or not until after you meet God face to face. No mortal is in a position to say if you're chosen or not....despite their audacity to claim that authority. So claiming you are chosen and someone else isn't is just plain hubris.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 18 2006, 04:17 PM) [snapback]288043[/snapback]</div>

My God keeps changing his criteria but currently EV, Prius, and Estima Hybrid engineers and owners qualify. And those that don't use ICE vehicles at all (if they are non-smokers). People using wind or solar power also find a place on my God's chosen list. You may get demerit points for smugness though, so be warned.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jul 17 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]288005[/snapback]</div>

Serious? Religion??? Are you serious????? No religion is serious!

The FSM's chosen ones are the pirates. No discussion on that point. It's stated explicitly in the Gospel of the FSM.

On to other, less-"serious" religions:

The Old testament does not say that there is only one god. Jahwe says to the Jews in the commandments, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." The understanding of the Jews at that time was that there are many gods. Pagans (Greeks, etc.) worshipped many gods. Each city had its patron god, and many people had their own patron god, who they gave special attention to, but nobody questioned the existence of the other gods. The issue back then was not which god you believed in, but rather, which god you directed your sacrifices and other rituals towards.

In that context, one particular god says to one particular tribe, I choose you to be my people and worship me. You (specifically the Jews) shall worship specifically me before any other gods.

The problem came when a new sect of Judaism arose, following a Jewish preacher (Jesus) and then branched off, declaring their preacher to be god, and telling everyone (not only Jews) that they had to worship this particular god, and finally declaring that the other gods did not even exist.

Now suddenly, you have people, for the first time ever, believing that there is only one god, and the question arises whether the Jews are still his chosen people, now that gentiles (non-Jews) are worshipping him also.

Bottom line: god has no chosen people because there is no god.

The Old Testament says the Jews are the chosen people of the god named Jahwe. The New Testament has Paul saying that god has changed his mind and the Jews are not god's chosen people any more.

The Greek gods, as told in mythology, often favored certain individuals, so one might interpret this as "chosen" individuals, but mostly it was people who chose which god to give special attention to.

Islam says that anyone can (and everyone should) convert and worship Allah, which is just their name, in their own language, for Jawhe, who is also the god of the Christians. And I think that other religions, by and large, welcome all comers.

So the answer to your question depends on which fairy tale you believe. I personally think the FSM is no less "serious" than any of the others.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 18 2006, 12:04 AM) [snapback]288013[/snapback]</div>

Interesting to have a preacher on here. Do you mind revealing your background and foreground?

I'm curious what schooling (seminary or whatever college you went to to become a preacher)...

Any denominational affiliation?

Biblical preacher? Curious how you get away from the Jews being God's chosen people..

And, where you're from, does God hate sin?

Just curious, and if anyone else on here is a preacher, I'm curious where you come down on some of these things.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 18 2006, 09:12 AM) [snapback]288081[/snapback]</div>

Yes, but Jehovah also made it clear that all other gods were "pretenders", if you will. They are nothing but objects of wood or stone, created by man:
Isaiah 40:18-20: - "And to whom can YOU people liken God, and what likeness can YOU put alongside him? 19 The craftsman has cast a mere molten image, and with gold the metalworker overlays it, and silver chains he is forging. 20 A certain tree as a contribution, a tree that is not rotten, he chooses. A skillful craftsman he searches out for himself, to prepare a carved image that may not be made to totter."

He often taunted the would-be gods of other nations, for such things as their inability to foresee the future, as he can:
Isaiah 41:23 - "Tell the things that are to come afterward, that we may know that YOU are gods. Yes, YOU ought to do good or do bad, that we may gaze about and see [it] at the same time"

Jehovah in the Bible is called "the Almighty", indicating his status far above all other "gods", and he often hurls challenges at the so-called gods of the nations. Being mere idols with no divine power, they certainly are not gods to be worshiped; they are really nothings. For example, Isaiah 44:8-17 - “Does there exist a God besides me? No, there is no Rock. I have recognized none. The formers of the carved image are all of them an unreality, and their darlings [cast from metal or carved from wood] will be of no benefit.â€

But, back the the original question, does God have a "chosen people"? I don't know if your question is serious, or just intended to be inflamatory, but here goes:
1) A religion that claims to represent the one true God, the highest personage in the universe, would be expected to teach only the truth about that one. A religion that teaches lies about God cannot be true. Jesus himself stated: “God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.â€â€”John 4:24.
Repeatedly the Scriptures refer to the body of true Christian teachings as “the truth,†and Christianity is spoken of as “the way of the truth.†(1 Tim. 3:15; 2 John 1; 2 Pet. 2:2)

2) Paul, at Ephesians 4:5 says there is “one Lord, one faith.†As I discussed in another post recently, the Bible does not teach that all religions are just a different path to God. Jesus stated: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. . . . Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.â€â€”(Matt. 7:13, 14, 21) What is God's "will" for Christians today, and who are doing his will? Part of it is describe by Jesus: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.†(Matthew 24:14) So, true Christians will be advocating God's Kingdom as the only real hope for mankind, and encouraging others to share that hope.

3) The Bible also indicates that true Christians would be identified by their conduct:
“Maintain your conduct fine among the nations, that, in the thing in which they are speaking against you as evildoers, they may as a result of your fine works of which they are eyewitnesses glorify God in the day for his inspection.†(1 Peter 2:12) So, a true Chrictian's conduct should reflect that of our examplar, Jesus Christ, and bring glory to God.

4) Jesus said "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) Revelation foretells that the great crowd of survivers would come out of "all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues", so their brotherly love would need to overcome all racial, tribal, or ethnic barriers. This love, along with their love for God, unites them in true brotherhood, though they are of many tribes and nations, truly an international brotherhood.

There's lots more, but I'm probably just wasting my time, as this is probably just troll-bait.

 

Please note that I take the privelege of posting the following inflammatory and rather disrespectful information because dbermanmd posted an article that tore down the wall on religious correctness (not that it hasn't been done before in FHOP). Because of this, I now have very little moral objection to challenging others' religious belief systems.

"How to Stop Worrying and Start Living" by Dale Carnegie

For those of you who aren't familiar with this book: it's a great read on how to reduce the stress in your life, except where the author proselytizes to the reader... in this book he is a self-professed Christian.

Here's the hilarious thing about thing his book...

He says that anyone who creates a different reality to cope with their stress is by definition insane.

God as people know it is a religious concept invented by humans to cope with life... and if you read the reviews on sam harris's book the end of faith (mentioned before, and linked below), you'll see some people referring to that.... IE faith is a way of dealing with the inability and/or fear of death.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039332765...5784168?ie=UTF8

Here is how I think of God... an imaginary friend. A twisting of reality to help one cope with and understand our lives on this planet. No sir, God did not creat man in his image. The reality is that man created God in his image.

Thus, by a self-professed Christian's definition of what it means to be insane... I am calling about 4 billion people on the Earth lunatics.

Is it really so hard living without an imaginary friend? Well, hey I had two imaginary friends when I was young... the other one being Santa. We all had to overcome that one. No sweat.

 

Paul wasn't a disciple.

The reason his writings are included in the Bible and others excluded had more to do with the politics and agenda of the powers forming the direction of the church (and their own personal agendas) than the "word of God". They picked and chose what went in the bible according to their own prejudices and to keep themselves in power. It was all about control.

I'd take Paul with a pinch of salt. Several pinches. In fact, I don't pay much attention to Paul at all. The four Gospels are the cornerstone of the New Testament. And I think somewhere in there it says that man has no business deciding what other men go to heaven. Or if they, themselves are "saved" either. That decision rests with God.

I've known plenty of people that led "christian" lives that weren't Christians. (And I've met Christians that shame the name.) My Father hasn't gone to church since he was in the army, yet he truly believes he will go to heaven and my Mother and I won't because he is Catholic and we are Lutheran. (But he'll put in a good word for us.) How many religions state that if you're not a member of "their" cult, you're not saved no matter what? It's not good enough to be Christian, you have to worship exactly the way they do and believe exactly the way they say.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Jul 18 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]288210[/snapback]</div>

I think I'm in love with you... very well put. Especially the part about 4 billion people being insane (kinda explains alot - middle east, GWB, Iraq, etc).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jul 17 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]288005[/snapback]</div>

The Jews were the chosen people, but they have recently opted out of thier contract (tounge in cheek here). Funny this email was sent to me just a few days ago (sorry to get humorous here for a serious discussion, but trying to lighten the mood before some of the bible thumpers come in - in any case, I agree with Mirza that god is imaginary and created to explain the unexplainable):


MEMO
To: The Lord G-d Almighty a.k.a. Ha'shem, Shadai, Elohim, etc.

From: The Jews: a.k.a. The Chosen People

Subject: Termination of Contract/Special Status (Chosen People)


As you are aware, the contract made between you and Abraham is up for renewal, and this memorandum is to advise you that after, yea, those many millennia of consideration, we, the Jews (The Chosen People) have decided that we really do not wish to renew.

We should point out immediately that there is nothing in writing, and, contrary to popular beliefs, we (The Jews) have not really benefited too much from this arrangement. If you go back to the early years of our arrangement, it definitely started off on the wrong footing. Not only was Israel and Judea invaded almost every year, but we also went to enormous expense to erect not one but two Temples, and they were both destroyed.

All we have left is a pile of old stones called the Western Wall (of
course you know all this, but we feel it's a good thing to account for all the reasons we wish to terminate the contract). After the Hittites, Assyrians, Goliaths, etc, not only were we beaten up almost daily, but then we were sold off as slaves to Egypt of all countries, and really lost a few hundred years of development.

Now we realize that you went to a great deal of trouble to send Moses to lead us out of Egypt, and those poor Egyptians were smitten (smote?) with all those plagues. But, reflecting on those years, we are at a loss to understand why it took almost forty years to make a trip that El Al now does in 75 minutes. Also, while not appearing to be ungrateful, for years a lot of people have asked why Moses led us left instead of right at Sinai? If we had gone right, we would have had the oil!

OK, so the oil was not part of the deal, but then the Romans came and we really were up to our necks in dreck.(i.e fertilizer, dung, feces...okay, okay - sh-t.)? While it's true that the Romans did give us water fit to drink, aqueducts, and baths, it was very disconcerting to walk down one of the vias, look up, and see one of your friends or family nailed to a three-by-four looking for all the world like a sign post. Even one of our princes, Judah Ben Hur got caught up with Roman stuff and drove like a crazy man around the Coliseum. It's a funny thing but many people swore that Ben Hur had an uncanny resemblance to Moses...go figure.

Then, of all things, one of our rabbis (teachers) declared himself "Son of You" (there was nothing said about this with Abe) and before we knew what was what, a whole new religion sprang up. To add insult to injury, we were dispersed all over the world two or three times while this new religion really caught on! We were truly sorry to hear that the Romans executed him like so many others, but, ...alas, (and this will make you laugh,) once again WE were blamed. Now here's something we really don't understand. That our rabbi really came into his own. Millions of people revered and worshipped his name and scriptures. ..... and still killed us by the millions.

They claimed we drank the blood of new born infants, and controlled the world banks (Oy! if only that were so.) We could have bought them all off, and operated the worlds' media and so on and so on. Are we beginning to make our point here?

OK so let's fast-forward a few hundred years to the Crusades. Hoo boy! Again we were caught in the middle! They, the Lords and Knights, came from all over Europe to smack the Arabs and open up the holy places, but before we knew what hit us, they were killing us right, left, and center along with everyone else. Every time a king or a pope was down in the opinion polls, they called a crusade or holy war, and went on a killing rampage in our land.

Today it's called Jihad. OK, so you tested us a little there, but then some bright cleric in Spain came up with the Inquisition. We all thought it was a new game show, but once again we and, we must admit, quite a few others were used as firewood for a whole new street lighting arrangement in major Spanish cities.

All right, so that ended after about a hundred years or so... in the scheme of things not a long time. But every time we settled down in one country or another, they kicked us out! So we wandered around a few hundred years or so, but it never changed. Finally we settled in a few countries but they insisted we all live in ghettoes...no Westchester's of Moscow for us. There we are in the ghettoes, when what do you know?

The Russians come up with the Pogroms. We all thought they made a spelling mistake and misspelled programs, but we were dead wrong (no pun intended). Apparently, when there was nothing else for them to do, killing the Jews (a.k.a. The Chosen People, are you getting our drift?) was the in thing.

Now comes some really tough noogies. We were doing quite well, thank you, in a small European country called Germany, when some house painter wrote a book, said a few things that caught on and became their leader....whoo boy what a bad day that was for us...you know... your Chosen People.

We don't really know where you were in the earth years 1940 to 1945. We know everyone needs a break now and then.....even Lord G-d Almighty needs some time off. But really...when we needed you most, you were never around.
You are probably aware of this, but if you have forgotten, over six million of your Chosen People, along with quite a few unchosen others were murdered. They even made lampshades out of our skins. Look, we don't want to dwell on the past, but it gets worse!

Here we are, it's 1948, and millions of us are displaced yet again, when you really pull a fast one. We finally get our own land back! Yes!!! After all these years, you arrange for us to go back... then all the Arab countries immediately declare war on us. We have to tell you that sometimes your sense of humor really eludes us. Ok, so we win all the wars, but it's now 2006 and nothing's changed. We keep getting blown up, hijacked, and kidnapped. We have no peace whatsoever. Enough is enough.

So, we hope that you understand that nothing's forever (except you of course) and we respectfully would like to pull out of our verbal agreement vis-×Â-vis being your chosen people.

Look, sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't. Let's be friends over the next few eons and see what happens. How about this? We're sure you recall that Abraham had a whole other family from Ishmael (the ones who got the oil). How about making them your chosen people for a few thousand years?

Respectfully,
The Committee To Be UN-Chosen

 

KEYDIVER: All that stuff you posted has nothing to do with whether those other gods existed or not. Most of it is just Jawhe boasting that he's bigger and badder than any of the other gods. The rest of it is him telling the Jews not to worship the other gods, and not to make and/or worship graven images. All of which suggests that they do exist. Why would you issue challenges to someone who does not exist? BTW, one of the big gripes the Muslims have against the Catholics is all those images of saints, which the Muslims view as graven images, and therefore contrary to god's law.

GODIVA: Paul is crucially important to Christianity because Paul created Christianity. Not Jesus. Jesus taught how people should behave in order to be saved when the end came. He stated clearly that he was living in the end times, and people needed to prepare. Mostly what he taught was, "Love god and your neighbor as yourself." He also advocated getting rid of your wealth because the tables were going to be turned. Jesus taught how people should behave! Paul created a cult of Jesus out of whole cloth: he created a brand new religion in which all that mattered was belief in Jesus! In Jesus's teaching (which was basically an apocalyptic sect of Judaism) it was your actions that mattered. But in Paul's new religion, which we now call Christianity, it was your belief that mattered. Everything Jesus said was flushed right down the toilet. (Okay, that's a figure of speech: they didn't have flush toilets in those days.)

There are today some people who believe in the religion that Jesus taught, and they mistakenly call themselves Christians. Mainstream Christianity today is the religion that Paul invented, which worships Jesus as the christ but marginalizes or dismisses entirely Jesus's teachings. That's why the Sermon on the Mount is brushed aside with excuses about not being "practical," and why Bible literalists refuse to read it literally.

Be as the lilies of the field. They sow not, neither do they reap, but their heavenly father feeds and clothes them. In other words, Jesus tells his followers to be bums and tramps. Paul and his followers can worship Jesus as the christ, but no way are they going to follow his teachings.

And it was Paul, and only Paul, who made it possible to have a religion that worships Jesus, without the extreme inconvenience of having to pay attention to what Jesus taught.

Paul created Christianity, and he is the final authority as to what Christianity is. Needless to say, I have no respect whatsoever for the religion Paul created. (Which is not to imply disrespect for the misguided people who have been misled into following this religion. They will be touched by the Noodly Appendages of the True creator of everything, and will join us who have already found the Truth at the gvreat beer volcano in heaven.)

 

edited.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 18 2006, 02:04 PM) [snapback]288264[/snapback]</div>

Is that sorta like the Muslims that ignore or dismiss the teachings of Mohammed? Who is their 'Paul'?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 18 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]288306[/snapback]</div>

Basically the same thing. Yes.

I don't know if they have a counterpart to Paul, but I'll guess that it would have been either the very first leader they had after Mohammed, or one of the very early ones. It's possible that they have a sort of "distributed Paul," a long line of commentators who have gradually changed the message, rather than one single person who reversed the intent of the original teachings in one fell swoop.

But I don't know the history of Islam. It would be an interesting subject. I see that The Teaching Company has a lecture series on Islam, but it's not on sale right now (all their courses go on sale at least once a year) and it does not appear to cover the history of Islam.

Religious movements have a habit of trashing everything good their founders taught and using them instead to perpetrate every sort of outrage.

 

Excuse me, but maybe this will help...

Matthew 15:22-26

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

In the passage after this Jesus removed the vexation the womans child suffered because she was so persistant, but the clarity is that Jesus was only sent for the "lost sheep of Israel" which is not you and me.

~Buttster

Update in italics, I hadn't read this passage in a month or two and forget the ending.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(excuseMeButt @ Jul 20 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]289420[/snapback]</div>

It doesn't help at all. You assume that it (the bible) is historically accurate. This may have never happened as far as we know, as ficticious as superman.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Jul 18 2006, 12:00 PM) [snapback]288210[/snapback]</div>

That's great, I agree with your entire post but this line really summed things up nicely in my mind. You would probably also find it interesting to read the book A History of God. Its kind of a tough read because it is quite "scholarly" and involved but really kind of demystifies religion to some extent. Regardless, to your summation above, all I can say is "Amen Brother"!

 

Actually, SOMETHING WAS said to Abraham about this:
Genesis 22:18 - "And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice."
As was further revealed to his descendants, Isaac, Jacob, and David, that seed was the Messiah. Under God's Kingdom that Jesus preached about, all nations of the earth will bless themselves.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(excuseMeButt @ Jul 20 2006, 12:33 PM) [snapback]289420[/snapback]</div>

Yes, in fulfillment of prophecy, Jesus ONLY preached to the nation of Israel. Daniel 9 prophecied that the Messiah would appear 69 weeks (of years) after the order to rebuild Jerusalem's walls, and that “[The Messiah] must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week,†states Daniel 9:27. So, the Law Covenant was kept in affect for 7 more years, long after Jesus' death. At that time, in 36 CE, Peter (one of the original apostles) was given the vision that indicated that God was now also accepting Gentiles into the Christian congregation. So, Jesus, in honor of the promise that God had made to Abraham, and his covenant with the nation of Israel, kept the covenant in force while he was on earth.

Hmmm...not in my Bible.

Its called mockery. God is actually mocking the PEOPLE who worshipped those "unrealities". Unreality means something that does not exist. His point is that the idols of wood and stone were only real in their minds, unable to help them, and unable to respond to his taunts. Using your reverse logic that if someone addresses someone else, then the person they're talking to must exist does not hold water. Those gods were real in some people's minds, and he needed to address that. And, the images and idols of those gods DID exist, so maybe he was addressing those?

Yes, that has always been one of God's big no-no's, even one of the 10 commandments.

 

THis is my personal belief and is not written or taught by anyone of the clergy. First I believe there is only 1 GOD no matter what he/she is called. Second, I believe we are all send here for a purpose and I am not saying that this is Hell but it definitely is not paradise. People are greedy, people kill eachother for money, land, food, anger, fuel, control whatever. The good once completing their purpose will then go to paradise. The others will eventually join the good but after a life of sufferage and much regret.