Well, now you know.

$300 dollars. That's what the evacuees would have been charged. After they were evacuated, not before.

Who here honestly believes that any American citizen who traveled to Lebanon can't afford a $300 charge for their evacuation? That is likely less than the price of any other transportation from Lebanon to Cypress, in peace or war time.

Knee jerk whining is all it is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kam @ Jul 19 2006, 10:34 AM) [snapback]288645[/snapback]</div>

It is similar to moving the inhabitants of an entire city while under the potential of being fired upon by Iranian built Silkworm missiles guided by Lebonese ground based radar. Each missile has the capacity to sink the ship it hits potentially killing hundreds if not a thousand + passengers. The missile has an over the horizan range. Hezbollah has shoulder fired anti-aircraft missles - each capable of downing an airplane. American citizens and craft are likely potential targets. This may give you some idea of the type of planning that is going on.

I agree with Dr Fusco entirely. So the US Government is left holding the bag for those thousands who have recklessly endangered themselves - and this is now being made into politcal fodder?? What gives? Almost like someone not evacuating New Orleans after watching this huge red storm that occupied the entire radar screen approach them head on for a whole week. Worse here - they actively WENT INTO harms way. All non official US citizens have themselves to blame on this one. And yes we should go get them and we should probably cover the expense of their stupidity. (a different issue is when we spend hundreds of millions of dollars helping others - like the tsunomi rescue operations, if we should not get paid back?) And without doubt if we transport any other countries citizens - send em a bill - I refuse to subsidize frogs or germans or maybe even canadians at this point (maybe not Canadians now that they are going to start building their military up and help us in this struggle)

Rest assurered Israeli Defense Forces are not going to target portions of Beirut occupied by American or other foreign citizens. That being said - if any human shields out there go to south Beirut - you are on your own and make sure to bring your health insurance card - you will be needing it -- by the way -- where are all those human shields that took up positions in Iraq b4 we attacked - no CNN or other press outlets, no false courage?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 18 2006, 07:36 PM) [snapback]288500[/snapback]</div>

The 'scream' comment was in response to your use of huge fonts, so it appeared you were screaming. If as you say, that was just to emphasize Pelosi's remarks, then my remark about a stroke is retracted.

Second, it is a matter of US law going back over 50 years concerning charging to repatriate persons evacuated that are not on official taxpayer business. Even when I was overseas on 'official business', I had to pay my own air fair to vacation elsewhere. If Ms.Pelosi wishes to change current law, that is her job and position. She knows the law, she was in Congress when this one was renewed in 2003. The state department can only echo US law.

Third, the USA does not have a fleet of cruise ships; in fact if you look, no cruise ships are US flagged. One of the reasons that cruise ships fly foreign flags is safety rules designed by the US Coast Guard to protect passengers from poorly built and maintained vessels. To sidestep those issues, Panama and Liberia, among others, flag these ships with little to no restrictions.

Fourth, there is this little pond called the Atlantic Ocean, perhaps you noticed that blue part between North America and Europe and the Mediteranean. Sweden and Greece are just a little closer.

Fifth, US warships WERE in place and flying helicopters in and out well before the other ships were in place.

Sixth, people who travel to areas against the advice of their state department are not the responsibilty of their government. Embassy assistance is there for their use and advise.

Seventh, as I predicted, some of the evacuees are already bitching about the accomodations and the disruption of their vacation.

The only way that the USA could have evacuated these people faster and better is if the airfields were intact and that shipping was already in place in Cyprus or Lebanon, ready to load. Most shipping companies do not want their vessels in port, not making money. If the US had had large amphibious ships in port, then they would undoubtedly have become targets; they may still become such during the evacuations, but at least they will be in higher state of readiness and less likely to end up like the USS Cole.

 

Shouldn't we be giving all the federal tax dollars to inner city welfare recipients rather than spending it to rescue rich people who can afford to travel to Beriut for vacation.

Which liberal agenda should we persue?



I was in Canada a couple weeks ago. I should have driven a couple hundred miles north, then called the embassy to see if they would put me in a nice hotel for a few days and then come give me an escort home.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 19 2006, 10:56 AM) [snapback]288659[/snapback]</div>

Norwegian Cruise Lines does have three US-registered ships in Hawaii. But that is clearly an exception.

And it's not due to safety issues at all. If a cruise ship ports at any US port, it has to meet ALL US Coast Guard safety standards as well as CDC health standards. Ships failing any of these requirements can be denied porting. The reason that almost every cruise ship is registered elsewhere are primarily hefty US tax implications and also labor law issues.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 19 2006, 10:46 AM) [snapback]288651[/snapback]</div>

You're correct, political parties are stirring the pot and trying to leverage this as much as possible. Up here they were praising the U.S. for using helicopters to start evacuating their citizens, while Canadians were still left waiting for ships to arrive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 19 2006, 08:12 AM) [snapback]288673[/snapback]</div>

Hm, I stand corrected. Are these the old Hawaii-America cruisers? I wonder why they maintain US-registry?

Never mind, my cruise ship junkie cowoker tells me that the 'Jones Act" requires US-registry on any vessel that plies between US ports without hitting a foreign port first. And that OSHA and labor laws apply there, where thy are not applied on non-US registry.

I do recall now that the QEII was impounded in NY due to her failing heath standards vis-s-vis the commodes and CHT system.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kam @ Jul 19 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]288676[/snapback]</div>

The advantages of having a real military

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 19 2006, 11:38 AM) [snapback]288692[/snapback]</div>

You've got one of them too? :lol: My cruise ship junkie coworker has been on well over 100 cruises so far. He got me hooked on cruising with a big group of friends ranging from 24 to 46 people and I'm looking forward to my 5th cruise this January.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_st...,204793,00.html


Freebie Ride Still Cause for Complaint, Questions About Expenses

Thursday , July 20, 2006




WASHINGTON —

Americans evacuating Lebanon continue to arrive in the United States, and U.S. officials expect the numbers to grow in the coming days.

Five Navy vessels led by the USS Nashville, with a capacity of 1,200, are moving Americans out of the Mideast country. Four more Navy vessels will soon arrive.

"Nearly 3,000 Americans have been transported from Lebanon to date, over 2,400 in the last 24 hours, including those currently aboard the USS Nashville," Brig. Gen. Michael Barbero, deputy director for regional operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Thursday.

• Click into the video tab to the right to watch a report by FOX News' Major Garrett.

In addition to moving Americans from Lebanon to Cyprus, the United States will soon direct evacuees to a U.S. airbase in Incirlik, Turkey. Flights home are increasing too.

"We hope that as many as six flights will go on Friday. And those flights are now going to both BWI, or will now be going to BWI, Baltimore-Washington International Airport, as well as to Philadelphia," Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Maura Harty said.

• Visit FOXNews.com's Mideast Center for more in-depth coverage.

The first round of evacuees touched down Thursday morning in Baltimore, Md. For the most part, the 138 aboard that first flight praised the U.S. evacuation plan.

"It feels wonderful to be back in the States. We just want to thank so much the State Department and the people that helped the government, the Marines, to help get us out," said one arrival at BWI.

But Americans who left Lebanon with European evacuees on non-U.S. vessels said they encountered a far rougher journey.

"We went on a cargo ship from the port of Lebanon. ... It was horrible. There were no facilities on the ship, just get out alive, that was it. We were on the ship for about 16 hours. It's a trip that takes about 4 or 5 hours," said Tom Charara from Long Beach, Calif.

A mini-media circus met the evacuees, symptomatic of a near-obsession with the fate of Americans caught in the Middle East crossfire and an evacuation that has drawn sporadic criticism.

First among the complaints was that the Orient Queen cruise liner was late on the scene. U.S. officials said it took time to contract with the Greek vessel because U.S. cruise liners don't dock in Lebanon. Others were reluctant to challenge the Israeli sea blockade of Lebanon's coast, though State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States had been working with the Israeli government to ensure safe passage for evacuation ships.

Another criticism was the U.S. evacuation ships were late to arrive. U.S. officials said it had to dispatch vessels from Europe and the United States, which had to get down to the eastern Mediterranean Sea.

"I think everyone would have liked to have seen the evacuation get up to speed a little bit faster," said Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H.

Still one more criticism offered is that Americans were initially forced to sign promissory notes to repay the U.S. government up to $200 for passage from Beirut to Cyprus.

Reimbursement has been included in the State Department Basic Authorities Act since 1956. In part, the law says expenditures for evacuations can be made for "private United States citizens or third-country nationals, on a reimbursable basis to the maximum extent practicable ... except that no reimbursement under this clause shall be paid that is greater than the amount the person evacuated would have been charged for a reasonable commercial air fare immediately prior to the events giving rise to the evacuation."

"Making people sign promissory notes is impractical, sends the wrong message and its simply unnecessary," Sununu argued.

On Tuesday, Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, sent a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice saying that the law, when it was modified in 2001, states explicitly that the secretary has "the necessary flexibility not to seek reimbursement when it is not practicable."

"I believe the current crisis in Lebanon is just such a case. With thousands of Americans at risk, the international airport closed, and danger to civilians from the ongoing military activity, which could not have been foreseen, your top priority should be the safe evacuation of American citizens. I strongly urge you to exercise the authority in the Act to not seek reimbursement from evacuees," he wrote.

Under the critical eye of lawmakers and the public, administration officials quickly changed their minds.

"The basic tenets of the law have been in place for about 50 years. It was modified five years ago. ... But Secretary Rice wanted to go the extra mile for our American citizens in need, and we have waived that fee. So there is not going to be any charge we wanted to take away any last worries that people might have, we understand they're experiencing great difficulties, so we wanted to take away those worries," McCormack told FOX News on Wednesday.

U.S. Amb. to Cyprus Ronald L. Schlicher said those evacuation expenses include the boat ride from Lebanon to Cyprus and elsewhere, facilities to stay in until they depart those intermediate stops and sometimes hotel arrangements. The cost of food and medicine are also taken care of by the government.

Schlicher said the majority of folks leaving Lebanon for Cyprus so far have been people with dual nationality, but also some "people of third nationalities, but who have like ties of marriage or kinship." The total cost of the evacuation effort has not been assessed, and officials said it would not be until the operation is complete

In Baltimore, where the majority of evacuees arrived, the state of Maryland is footing the bill.

"We are travel agent, we are the health department, we are the bank. We are everything they need, and obviously we are very, very happy to do this," said Gov. Robert Ehrlich, adding that he's not concerned about who ultimately pays the state's expenses.

"I don't care. We are going to do what we need to do. We will work it out with the feds later. If we have to eat some of this, that's the way it is," he said.

With the waiver in force, some have said evacuated Americans should have had to take some responsibility for the costs arising from their travel to Lebanon. Prior to the latest outbreak of violence between Israel and the Lebanon-based Hezbollah, the State Department warned Americans to "carefully weigh the necessity of their travel to Lebanon."

After the violence began, the State Department also advised all Americans in Lebanon to register with the U.S. Embassy. Many Americans ignored that advice, subsequently slowing their departure.