Mine is bigger than yours...

The competition is already heating up.

I believe with time, other auto brands, battery makers would beat Tesla's battery capacity and timeline.


Dxta

 

…oh, that is so "…My Invisible Friend can beat up your Invisible Friend!"

 

Why are they doing this if Li-Ion batteries degrade due to dendrites and you can't use the full capacity? Why are we not fixing these problems first... and then building these MegaWatt/GigaWatt battery storage systems?

 

Because you do exactly what Toyota did. You make a big battery and use a smaller portion of it. That's why the original Prius for example only went roughly between 40% and 80% even though the screen showed 0% and 100%. When you build a big bank like this in an area with good stable power, it can be massaged carefully and gently to extend its life. I assume that's what they're going to do.

 

That's my point. What a waste of potential capacity for something so huge! Why not fix it so that when the time comes for a 1 GW system, use all of the 1 GW instead of being limited 80% of the useable capacity?

And still use only 80% of its actual capacity? Again, wasted energy and manufacturing.

 

That's how all batteries work. You never want to discharge to nothing or charge to 100%. Even the best lithiums top out at around 96% on the high end and 3%-4% on the low end making it about 90% usable capacity. That's the design, there is nothing to fix.

 

...and if they were to off limit the algorithms that controls the charging/discharge to ...., that means people have got to spend more kind of, buying batteries. I think the technology is cool.

 

Because you can only build with the technology in hand even if it isn't perfect. There is an old saying, 'Never let perfect be the enemy of good enough.'

The first Wright flyer was a terrible airplane compared to what we fly today. But it was a critical first step and aviation progressed.

So what if these batteries wear out ... by then better batteries will be available to replace them.

Bob Wilson

 

That's exactly it - there's a demand for energy storage systems now, not 10, 20, 30 years from now.

Needing more batteries now to meet the capacity target, or wearing out batteries sooner, can still reduce overall emissions of CO2 and of criteria pollutants. Sure, you have higher battery manufacturing emissions, but they more than offset the emissions of natural gas peaker plants that you would've run instead of the battery storage.

 

Well I disagree with that saying. And certainly in this case.

 

I presume you have replaced the anode in your water heater, right? (and the heating elements for that matter). Because your water heater is probably not able to be 100% efficient unless you have just replaced it or done those parts replacements. So you may be spending $ to heat water that you don't have to. My point is we all live with less than optimum solutions. And buy less than optimum things.

 

"Wasted energy and manufacturing" would be to use the batteries in a manner that shortens their overall cycle life expectancy. Restricting their per-cycle capacity increases their lifetime throughput.

Future battery technology should do better. But we won't get there without using and building upon what we have right now.

 

Hmmmm. Industry.....if we waited until a product was perfect before it was put into use, we would still be waiting for the Model T to come off the assembly line. Pretty much EVERYTHING is produced once its design is determined to be "good enough". Otherwise a company would go bankrupt spending money on design teams with no income from sales. The kinks get worked out after it's in production and in use. The next stage of improvements is based on the current product in use and weaknesses discovered (imperfections). Iteration after iteration after iteration.

It's 11:30pm and you're tired as all heck, but here's what you've been told you have to do before you go to bed. Stand so the tip of your nose is 10 feet away from a wall. Every minute, move closer to the wall so that the distance between the tip of your nose and the wall is cut in half. When your nose touches the wall, you can go to bed. Are you ever going to be able to go to bed? Or after about 5 minutes, are you going to just say 'good enough' ? In a perfect world, you would never go to bed.

 

Ok let's try another system as we are in UK using a liquid storage system that doesn't degrade in the same way as Lithium Ion.

Cornwall's largest energy storage system coming to solar-powered farm – GPHS-Network

 

Flow batteries are a fantastic idea for fixed applications - really, the main reason for using Li-ion is the economies of scale due to EV manufacturing.

 

True, but this is small scale ATM very close to cutting edge of development.

 

…ask any competent surgeon to see if they agree with you!

 

If we did it the way you wish, we'd be generating for more greenhouse emissions burning natural gas or coal for power than the manufacturing of the "wasted" battery portions, while waiting for perfect batteries that might never come to pass. Plug in cars reduce emissions by avoiding the burning of fossil fuels.

Your stance in this thread while owning a Prime makes you a hypocrite.

 

That's my point. Build better tech first before making these huge sources.

No. I have no idea what that is and don't care.

But I think that with these battery sources, these companies should devote more time/energy to better technology first, because I think that is more necessary and more important to address these issues on big battery plants, first and more promptly than wasting potential energy and lithium, than it would be to make other things in technology more efficient. How much pollution goes into building such a huge battery in the first place? And then you use only 90% of it? I think that they should use more efficient graphene-based polymers, and reduced dendrite formation, and I think that they can get closer to 95%-99% usable capacity, and thus cut down on manufacturing pollution that way.

??
That makes no sense. Build better technology that uses closer to 100% of the batteries and not degrade its longevity before putting up these enormous battery operated sources.

1. No it doesn't!
2. It doesn't matter what car I have!
3. How you would like it if I called you a hypocrite? How would you like it if I said: Your stance on something makes YOU a hypocrite, and because of whatever car that you have. See how it makes YOU feel!

What does life-rescuing surgery have to do with anything??