Will Toyota make a play for GM?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rancid13 @ Jul 17 2006, 04:39 PM) [snapback]287712[/snapback]</div>

Ain't gonna happen. In fact I'll be shocked if this Renault GM merger comes to fruition either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rancid13 @ Jul 17 2006, 03:39 PM) [snapback]287712[/snapback]</div>

Why would you hitch yourself to the titanic?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jul 17 2006, 05:03 PM) [snapback]287725[/snapback]</div>

GM made the Titanic? No wonder it sank! :lol:

 

Because Toyota is already in bed with GM on the Matrix/Vibe?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 17 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]287766[/snapback]</div>

Well, just because you screwed a prostitute, doesn't mean you should marry her.

 

I never thought of it like that, I guess...

 

As to why Toyota cares:


From the cited article apparently others did NOT read:

"One Toyota source says the company has "war-gamed" a way to assist GM. Despite Toyota's juggernaut-like growth, which has resulted in the company increasing its U.S. market share from 9.3% in 2000 to 14.6% today and earning in excess of $10 billion a year the past three years, the company fears the kind of social and political backlash that could come if General Motors falls apart."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 17 2006, 07:22 PM) [snapback]287800[/snapback]</div>

Well put wstander,

I think the reality of the situation is that the US will soon become like Britain, whose auto industry was strong back in the day but completely withered, compared to say Germany or France, or even the US.

The difference is that Toyota knows how vindictive US companies can be, and the fact that the US government is completely willing to cheat/kill/maim to help out their major industries (which I'm assuming Toyota execs would assume Japan would do for them). And Japanese companies, if they do one thing well, is plan for the future... almost to an obsession.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tideland_raj @ Jul 17 2006, 06:17 PM) [snapback]287872[/snapback]</div>

I think that the "social and political backlash" that Toyota is concerned with is all of the GM employees out of work, along with the economic straits of suppliers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rancid13 @ Jul 17 2006, 04:39 PM) [snapback]287712[/snapback]</div>

let me post a thought for consumption.

GM is using its current difficulties to do what it never thought it could in order to make it competitve in the long run. Hampered by high union costs, high health cost benefits, union controlled sub-suppliers, high retirement benefits what better way to cast aside these LONG TERM Guaranteed chains and balls but through bankrupcy or near bankrupcy?? Imagine the cost concessions it is going to be able to ring from all of the above as its ability to survive continues to diminish? Why do you think GM continues to lose marketshare - dont you think that they if they wanted to could introduce hybrids, etc real quick -- they have no desire to until they unshackle themselves from their current long term shackles.

that is my take on it.

what say you guys??

 

GM is a multi-national corporation. It's strategic interests are best pursued w/o a nationalistic perspective.

Toyota's interest in GM perhaps would be for getting assets for less than they are worth?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(volkl @ Jul 17 2006, 10:42 PM) [snapback]287934[/snapback]</div>

Toyota is scared that Renault/Nissan could gain to much too quickly. This has less to do with GM and more to do with Renault/Nissan.

 

I hope not. I just heard another co-worker make the statement today that he would never by a GM product again. And he was a union man at a tire plant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ServoScanMan @ Jul 18 2006, 07:53 AM) [snapback]288130[/snapback]</div>

Why does he feel this way? Is he anti-
GM product?
Nissan?
Toyota?
foreign investment?

Just curious as to why?

 

I know people are just throwing out their ideas and theories about GM and its demise and/or marriage to Nissan or Toyota. Lets step back and think about this situation.

What happens to GM in many respects is a look into the future of United States Manufacturing. The auto industry touches probably more people than any other manufacturing endeavor in this country. While I personally feel GM has made many a bad decision over the years I am not yet ready to write them off. Yes as some of you point out GM can now make labor changes that were very difficult or near impossible in the past. But, having said that it is not the best way to change an industry as it will be very costly and disruptive to their business. GM for all its failures in the marketplace is still a leader in many areas of research.

When your a manufacturer you tend to focus your attention on where the money is. So for many years now the American consumer has purchased and asked for large trucks and large SUVs. Just imagine that if all of a sudden gas became really cheap in Japan. And also imagine they had the highway system that we have, etcetera. I realize you have to really imagine. Toyota as well as Nissan and other Japanese auto manufacturers would not be able to turn around their product mix in time to prevent the influx of US auto manufactures such as Ford and GM who would be able to capitalize on the change because they had the product already. Now while this is not the reality I just wanted to make a point that not everthing is black and white.

Unfortuniately for GM, Ford, and Chyrsler their biggest market has been the United States. For them it has been difficult to develop vehicles for small nitch markets (The Corvette and a couple of Cads are the exception) They are not as nimble as other manufacures in the world because they still rely on mass manufacturing to keep costs in line.

I am on my second Prius 2005, now a 2006. I love the car. Frankly, I probably would not have purchased it just to save gas. That was icing on the cake. And I am really happy that it produces 80% fewer emissions. The real reason I purchased the car was the diamond lane pass. I know I am not alone. I understnand but don't have the numbers that most all other hybrid models whether Toyota, Honda (Accord), Ford, Lexus etcetera have not sold well. Someone correct me on this if I am wrong. The real reason many of us have purchased a Prius or Honda Civic hybrid is for the diamond lane. We are so tired of traffic and tired of waiting in lines. Yes there are alot of folks who purchased just cause of emissions. I would venture a bet that if the diamond lane pass were ended tomorrow Prius sales would falter.

Just so you know I am a consultant and I teach the Toyoto Production System and have followed the auto industry for over 40 years.

Manny

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(drmanny3 @ Jul 18 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]288288[/snapback]</div>

Manny,
What about all the folks who bought in 2004 and 2005 prior to any disucssion of diamond-lane access? I'm not sure the diamond lane actually makes any difference to me (though it's a great ego trip "so can your $70K BMW drive in the carpool lane?")... I'd say the fact remains that the Prius is the greenest mass-produced car you can buy today. Don't discount it. Also, my wife wanted a more european car (she's French)... ie, small hatchback, 4dr with good gas mileage and interior... and the options were painfully thin here in the US. Her Prius is a bit big for her, but she liked it enough to not opt to get the "new car", and so I bought a 2nd one (as we were replacing our old 94 Integra).