Does Charge Mode Reduce EV Range?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by mr88cet, Nov 26, 2017.

Page 1 of 2
  1. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Interesting: We just took a road trip in our P.Prime Austin->Houston->Austin: ~400 miles plus driving around a bit in Houston. This time, I tried recharging the battery a bit with Charge Mode, especially on the way back. In short, I didn’t want to end up with more gas in the tank than necessary. It’ll just lie around getting stale, so I figured, why not burn some of it to charge up the battery.

    However, I’ve noticed since getting back, that it seldom charges up to the usual 32ish miles of range anymore, but to 29.x miles.

    Now that being said, I‘m not yet sure whether it’s just being more pessimistic in its estimates or that the range really is reducing. I need to check the #KWh charged stats. Also, I should mention that I saw a few occasional cases of this before the trip, so it could be a gradual-degradation type of thing.

    Have any of you heard of evidence that using Charge Mode degrades the battery in EV operation? Or Hybrid Mode, for that matter? That, or briefly driving in either of those mode makes its EV-range estimates more pessimistic?


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #1 mr88cet, Nov 26, 2017
  2. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    2,730
    2,640
    0
    Location:
    Farmington Hills, Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    nah, it's probably the guess-o-meter using your charge mode range (80%) as it's criteria. stop using charge mode and charge using the plug for awhile and you will probably see your range go back up
     
    #2 priuscatprimeguy, Nov 26, 2017
    dalcon95 and bisco like this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    111,177
    50,607
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    exactly. the meter has no idea how many miles you can travel in ev. you ev range is only reduced by driving circumstances.
     
    #3 bisco, Nov 26, 2017
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,558
    10,331
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Don't forget the other element of range estimates: Watt-hour needed per mile. If your big trip used EV at higher speed or adverse weather compared to your normal commute, then a fixed battery size will go fewer miles. That will then reduce future range estimates until that trip ages out of the history used to make such estimates.

    Plus, in my climate zone, winter conditions are arriving, reducing both MPG(gas) and MPG(e).
     
    #4 fuzzy1, Nov 26, 2017
  5. joachimz

    joachimz Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    451
    612
    17
    Location:
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    i just came back from a ~ 900 mile roundtrip, no EV charging available, i once charged from ~ 2% to 8)% (took 33-34 min) and had multiple shorter charges (5-10 min range) in-between ... this morning, after charging over night, EV range said 43.5 miles, almost exactly where it has been the past several weeks, so no, i do not believe that charge mode has any effect on EV range based on this
     
    #5 joachimz, Nov 26, 2017
    vvillovv likes this.
  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    In one case, on my 19-mile trip to work, I noticed that the EV range estimate reduced by about 22 miles. So, assuming that it’s still charging the same number of KWh as before (not sure of that yet), it’s probably just estimating more accurately than before.

    iPhone ? Pro

    It’s an estimate — reasonably good one, from what I’ve seen, but certainly not perfect. For me at least, it tends to be a few percent on the high side, all in all, but It depends upon driving style and conditions, and other factors, so ... complex.

    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #6 mr88cet, Nov 26, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2017
    bisco likes this.
  7. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,985
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    From my reading of the manual, charge mode only takes the battery to 80% while plugging in takes it to "100%". That would explain the difference.
     
    #7 David Beale, Nov 27, 2017
    I'mJp and jerrymildred like this.
  8. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yes, I noticed that — only up to 23.7 I think it was, in my case.

    However, I was talking about charges from a charger before and after the road trip in which I used Charge Mode.

    I finally had a chance to charge it from almost nothing (1.6 miles, I think) to full, and it took 5.8KWh. As I recall, that’s pretty close to what it took before, although possibly a little lower. Not sure...


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #8 mr88cet, Nov 27, 2017
  9. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,732
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Everytime I go on a road trip my EV calculation swings wildly. It isn't hard to see why. The GOM is a trailing average calculation. I drive more aggressively on road trips than on my lazy weekday commute. Only the most recent miles are considered in the calculation. I wish I knew how many trailing miles it is but the GOM resets to my usual seasonal average within a week or two.
     
    #9 mmmodem, Nov 27, 2017
  10. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I think I’ve concluded that it actually is charging fewer miles recently. Granted, I don’t know that has anything to do with road trip. I’m guessing it’s more likely temperature-related, or just how the car naturally breaks in over time. Not sure.

    I think it actually is reducing the number of miles charged, as opposed to the Estimate-o-Tron losing accuracy: The number of miles being charged is going down, it’s still reporting the same 4.7 miles/KWh, and certain trips that I used to juuuuust barely make on EV are turning into trips that I juuuust barely don’t make on EV.

    I think it’s still a fairly-precise (although not super-accurate at ~10% too high), estimate, and it really is charging less.

    Edit: To clarify, I don’t think heating provisions are likely big contributors, since, although the average temperatures are considerably lower, which I’m guessing is what’s mostly affecting it, it’s still pretty rarely going low enough to merit turning on the heat pump, and when I do, the EV range definitely drops not-unsubstantially.

    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #10 mr88cet, Dec 10, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
    bisco and dalcon95 like this.
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    111,177
    50,607
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    agreed. cooler temps mean less battery efficiency, and more air friction. and you also had snow. i'm down to 11.4 miles from 15.1 peak, but it is now in the 30's here.
     
    #11 bisco, Dec 10, 2017
    dalcon95 likes this.
  12. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    11.4 and 15.1 miles ... per charge, or...?

    In my case, it would previously come off the charger with estimating 31-32 miles. Now it comes out of a charge at 28ish estimated miles.

    Again though, I typically find its estimates about 10% high. My 19-mile trip to work requires what it estimates as 21 miles or thereabouts.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #12 mr88cet, Dec 10, 2017
  13. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2017
    208
    208
    0
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Cooler weather can also reduce tire pressures that increases rolling resistance? Guess we could do several “burn outs” to raise tire temperatures / pressures.

    I miss the TPMS in my 2015 Fiat 500e that readout the actual tire pressure in each tire.
     
    #13 CraigM, Dec 10, 2017
    mr88cet and dalcon95 like this.
  14. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    So much for conservative driving!

    Yeah, that’s certainly true. To some degree, I’ve been monitoring tire pressure, and in this case, it’s clearly still reporting 4.7miles/KWh.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #14 mr88cet, Dec 10, 2017
    dalcon95 likes this.
  15. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    936
    1,098
    0
    Location:
    Duluth, GA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Bisco beat me to it. My mother lives outside of College Station and she said she got quite a bit of snow Thursday night. Not too many places where you can get snow, hurricanes and 100+ regular summer temperatures. Oh yeah and tornadoes.
     
    #15 Since2002, Dec 10, 2017
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    111,177
    50,607
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    yes, per charge.
     
    #16 bisco, Dec 10, 2017
  17. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,311
    1,335
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    On a Prius Prime or an original PiP?

    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #17 mr88cet, Dec 10, 2017
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    111,177
    50,607
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    pip, that would be disheartening in a prime.
    my only point is that your range decreases in winter, even in austin. so figuring out if charge mode had an effect on the range estimate is difficult this time of year.
     
    #18 bisco, Dec 11, 2017
    mr88cet likes this.
  19. Mark57

    Mark57 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    2,945
    2,738
    0
    Location:
    OK
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    True, but when that happens, you don't leave them that way, you adjust the pressure. Viola, non-issue.
     
    #19 Mark57, Dec 11, 2017
  20. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2017
    208
    208
    0
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    :) True, but soooo many folks have probably never checked their tire pressures, or they rely on a quick-lube sort of place to check pressures when the tires are hot from driving. Heck, I probably only check pressures 2-3 times a year. That’s why I liked the TPMS in the Fiat 500e that readout each tire’s pressure on the display.
     
    #20 CraigM, Dec 11, 2017
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2