Brake Service Dealership or Non Dealership

Sorry but I wasn't joking. A professional brake job...which I actually used to work as a professional, (brake check in Tx) includes a caliper rebuild and turning the rotors or replacing them and repacking the bearings if they have them. When you are doing a professional job you have to do it perfect so you don't have to worry about returns. You don't know if the calipers will stick or the rotors will make noise with the new pads so you always put a fresh cut on them to go with the new pads. Since the caliper uses composite pistons they would have to be replaced as I don't think you can rebuild them because they get grooves in them. Not so sure on that because I saw the manual had rebuild caliper section and it didn't say don't reuse the piston. And also a bleed and flush.

A shade tree mechanic can just swap pads, and if it makes noise go back in and do it right if necessary.

Apples and oranges comparison on the job. A professional has to do a professional job.

150 to do a transmission fluid change, I wouldn't change your transmission fluid for less. A hundred dollars an hour is what I want to get dirty on your car, and I wouldn't think a business could keep the doors open for that little. That's not a big profit for a business when you look at taxes, insurance, overhead, etc. I really do think those prices are pretty reasonable.

Spark plugs may be a little high, but have you had a spark plug break off? or strip out? Do enough and you will have it happen. That can slow down the process. And if it happens to a customers car you don't get any extra money. Its part of the game with an aluminum head.



I admit I round up, but this was the other day for me, close enough to 50
but I also had the fill level plug strip out (soft) and had to finish the job with a chisel to get it out. Add another 8 dollars for the replacement plug

 

I'm not sure what you mean here: there's no particular difference between the rebuilding process with the phenolic piston and the process with the Gen 1 calipers with steel pistons. There's a rebuilding kit available with all the rubbery and small metal bits and a wodge of the proper red grease to rebuild two calipers, and it's inexpensive. Pistons themselves are not included in the rebuilding kit because they're generally reusable. If you've got a gnarly one that needs replacement, they're for sale a la carte (whether the Gen 1 steel ones, or the Gen 2-and-later phenolic ones).

-Chap

 

Like I said I am not familiar with that material and even referenced the manual didn't say no reuse on the piston. I haven't had a need to rebuilt a prius caliper yet.

 

I agree with the conservative approach to maintenance. Check and measure things often; replace only if actually needed. Having to rebuild a caliper is rare. Mostly you just make sure everything's in spec, the rubber seals are intact, stuff moves smoothly, and you call it a day. When one does need to be rebuilt, it needs it, and you'll notice.

I had a Gen 1 caliper that needed a rebuild because something had torn the rubber piston boot, allowing salt water in. There was another PriusChat poster who turned out to need new phenolic pistons for his because the old ones had swollen. Toyota's got the formulation down to where they hardly ever do that, but if you happen to be driving in the exact right conditions and they do, well, it's an easy repair.

-Chap

 

Never heard of Toyota brake job included replacing the calipers, it’s only pads and turn the rotors or replace the rotors as necessary.

Were the calipers you replaced was mostly on domestic vehicles?

 

Do yourself

 

When I worked there, which was a long time ago..every job came with a caliper kit and a hardware kit. (if available) Domestic and imports. If the piston was composite, you replaced it with steel. Bleed and flush was standard, using a pressure bleeder. You could wire wheel a steel piston but you didnt wire wheel a composite. When I had my brakes done by them on a car a few years back, they no longer rebuilt calipers but swapped them out. My guess was for a bigger mark up. I have 8 vehicles not including my freightliner and sometimes I have more money than time. When I have money I don't mind paying a mechanic to use his lift and complete the job in an hour where it would take me longer in the driveway. I have relationships with mechanics so they know I am paying them instead of doing it myself. I show up with documentation on how to do it if its crazy stuff like shift bushings on a Cadillac cts so he can whip it out faster. We all have to feed our families and I am ok with it if they charge reasonable prices. My buddy paid the Cadillac dealer 2k for an oil change and the little crap they pointed out. Homey don't play that.

 

that's a pretty thorough brake job where you work at. When I was working at the Toyota Dealership, they only work on the pads and rotors, the calipers are expensive to replace and its out of the customers pocket. Plus, its not in the service manual indicating the calipers needed replacing, unless there was obvious damage to the rubber seals and/or leaking. Maybe its an independent shop thing?

 

Interesting your saying the dealer doesn't but the manual puts it in multiple pages, and doesn't say optional. Its right after remove the disc brakes...search for piston

 

I'd say the Toyota Repair Manual (at least my under-the-table pdf) is NOT very good at defining what a brake inspection entails.

Honda's Shop Manuals are better in this regard: there'll be an instruction in the Owner's Manual, something like "Brake Inspection". Go to the Shop Manual (with our last 06, you could still get a complete paper manual for around $100) and there's a section titled "Brake Inspection", and it outlines step-by-step what that service entails.

Toyota on the other hand: has a soup-to-nuts instruction, everything you might possibly do to brakes, including caliper rebuild, with no explanation as to what is or is not included in the typical service. I just fall back on my Honda experience (DIY), and look for the similar.

My take, brake service should include:

Removal of the pads, clean up of pads and shims, check of thickness, lube of pins (Sil Glyde Brake Lubricant or similar), lube of pads, shims, caliper points of contact (Permatex anti-seize or similar). Also check of rotor thickness, runout and parallelism, periodically, and mainly if there's a noticeable pulsation.

I wouldn't machine rotors. Definitely wouldn't open up caliper. Have never done that, and I doubt any typical dealership would do that at a brake service, without good reason and/or specific request.

 

The Prius doesn’t have a rebuilt caliper kit, it’s all new calipers if you’re going to replace it.

 

Uhhhh... I am a police officer and I know a portable meth lab when I see it.

Feet back and spread 'em, Leisk! Hands behind your back!

 

LOL. And you TRUST them? ROTFL. OMG. LOLOLOLOL!!!!! I just spit milk out my nose ...

 

Maybe not a "rebuilt caliper kit", but they definitely sell a caliper rebuild kit. Each kit includes all the rubbery bits, retaining rings, and banjo-bolt gaskets to rebuild two calipers, plus a little wodge of the proper lithium soap based glycol grease.

They also sometimes have fully rebuilt components available. I did buy a Toyota rebuilt Gen 1 caliper once, and the quality was excellent. Rebuilt parts will have the same part number with -84 tacked on at the end. Never hurts to search. If it's not available, then you buy new, or buy the rebuild kit and fix your own.

My own approach to maintenance is conservative: I'll noninvasively test the caliper, examine for any damage to the rubber boots, and if everything's good, it doesn't get disassembled further. I have one each front and rear caliper rebuild kits stashed in my basement, so if I ever do discover a problem, I can fix it on the spot and restock the parts later, rather than being out of commission waiting for an order.

-Chap

 

Yeah. Toyota used to sell rebuilt calipers, not anymore, might still be some available for the old 90's cars but not many.

 

I don't know ... I bought my Toyota remanufactured Prius caliper in 2015. They still advertise an active remanufactured parts program:

Genuine Toyota Remanufactured Parts

I once found a PDF catalog of all the models and parts they had currently in the program, but I don't remember where, at the moment. Once I spotted the pattern that they just add -84 on the end of the new-part order number, I figured it's just as easy to shop around for order-numbr-84 and see what comes up. Availability may vary over time, probably to do with demand and supply of rebuildable cores, but I don't see anything saying they've discontinued the program.

In addition to the categories of parts on that web page, I also noticed (as I was skimming that PDF) a bunch of models' CV axles, etc.

-Chap

 

How different is the precedufe on a 2nd gen? My brake fluid is pretty dark with about 100k or more on the fluid itself.

 

IIRC the 2nd gen Repair Manual did not provide a non-Techstream method. The simplest/safest (knock on wood) method is to have dealership do it. I would canvas several if practical; both for price, and to sound them out: if they argue the the need, quote a price over $200 and/or sound clueless/bluffing, maybe hold off.

Also, caution them to test-drive after the service, and take a look through the wheels yourself before leaving, look for missing bleed bolt caps, AND test drive yourself: take a tentative round the block drive before leaving. Check reservoir appearance/level too.

FWIW, with previous cars at a local dealership, I've had a couple of "negative" experiences, getting brake fluid changed.

The first, they "blew out" (or words to that effect) the brake booster (not sure of the terminology/tech), and that cost an extra $500 or so. They claimed it was "about to go anyway", so who knows.

The second incident: first off, they managed to misplace at least half the bleed bolt caps, AND left one rear corner completely brakeless. Yup... It was not our regular car, so I was not sure at first. The car had an odd side-to-side rocking sensation, just as it came to a stop, and seemed to be overshooting, at stop lines. That's putting it mildly: at one red light that was a last minute thing, I braked, the anti-lock braking kicked in furiously, and what would seem a routine quick stop, left me in the middle of the crosswalk.

Finally I raised the rear, had my wife push the brake pedal while I spun rear wheels, and surprise, surprise...

I raised hell at the dealership; they did it again, several times, and I suspect someone working there was back to washing cars for a while.