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Another blown head gasket.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by leeb18c, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. amos

    amos Active Member

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    Seems like no short cuts with that issue. Toyota gave us the whole shaft including an OCC.
    The positive side of this project here is strange but solid fact. A positive change on mpg and almost no oil consumption.
    Been 7000 miles now. Truth is my car was burning more oil before they did the head gasket. Im happy with it now.
     
  2. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Going to start the job now!!
    A week early. Lets see how it goes.
     
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  3. amos

    amos Active Member

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    Ok. Following up. Are you using oxiclean for the cooler and IM ? I got confused by so many oxiclean out there and didnt know which one is right for the IM cleaning. My egr cooler and valve are already cleaned and replaced by dealer (warranty covered ). Can someone post a pic of that oxiclean?
     
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    I believe @Mendel Leisk did this not long ago. He tends to keep detailed records.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I started cleaning the intake manifold with brake cleaner, then followed up with OxyClean. I think the Oxy did clean the intake manifold further, but maybe wasn't as effective as on the EGR cooler. With the latter I also started with brake cleaner, ended up with "meh" results. Then tried Oxy, a strong, hot tap water solution, soak for an hour or so, rinse with hot tap water and repeat. 5~6 sessions thus, the EGR cooler was shiny metal.

    With the intake manifold, start with brake cleaner, then onto Oxy (per above method), I kept floating gunk out, but it seemed sorta never-ending. I get the sense the interior of the intake manifold is more porous, softer material, just doesn't release gunk as well. I would just do the best you can, focus in particular on the EGR passages, check out the interior passages as best you can with point light source. I think you'll see it'll still be a bit cruddy, but a lot clearer/open.

    I'm using powdered OxyClean , picked up at Costco.

    IMG_7892.JPG IMG_7893.JPG
     
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  6. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    As Mendel mentioned above, I just use Oxyclean for EGR cooler only. I'm on my third soak in Oxyclean and rise since this afternoon and still carbon cruds still coming out. I think mine is really clogged. :(

    If one were to do EGR cooler cleaning, it'll be best to swap with a clean one(like Ray and others are doing) since it'll take very long to clean it thoroughly. I wonder if it will better or faster(?) with Oxyclean and put it in the ultrasonic cleaner.
     
    #26 leeb18c, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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  7. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    So finally, I got the head out now. It's been slow going especially, taking out the EGR cooler. I think it took me about really crazy 2 hours to get the damn thing out. I don't know why Toyota does not use just a bolt instead of that stud and nut. I have to kneel on the engine to reach to exhaust connection and that one nut below the EGR cooler. :( I think EGR is a must do maintenance at 100K as everyone here already knew.

    Also, I see some oil puddle in my intake manifold. Good think I bought a catch can and will install it. I didn't see the oil puddle when I clean it 10k ago. Not sure why there is so much oil this time.

    The head gasket looks ok. I'm not sure if there can be a coolant leak into cylinder. There might be but can't say by just casually looking at it. Maybe I'll take a careful look tomorrow with good light. I'll install everything tomorrow and hope I can do it faster and finish it. For me, there is quite good enough room to deal with timing chain cover. Much more room than my old Integra, I think if I remember right. I just need to make sure to clean the oil thoroughly when re-installing the timing chain cover.

    I'll post some pictures I got. No videos though, sorry. If anyone wants any particular pictures, please let me know.
     
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  8. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Some pictures.
    Not sure how to put description to each pic. :(
    1. Hood removed.
    2. Wiring harness moved to side.
    3. Intake manifold oil.
    4. EGR cooler removed.
    5. Intake manifold and cam cover removed.
    6. Cam/chain.
    7. Spark plugs. Cyl 3 and 4 leaner and Cyl 1 & 2 are a bit darker but not oily. Bad spark plugs? :(
    8. Oxyclean bubbling from EGR cooler soak.
    9. Chain cover removed.
    10. Chain guide and tensioner.
    11. Bottom, oil pump.
    12. Head removed.
    13. Head removed, another angle.
    14. Cyl 1.
    15. Cyl 2. A bit more cruddier than others. Hmmm.
    16. Cyl 3.
    17. Cyl 4.
    18. Under side of head gasket.
    19. Cyl 1, water jacket.
    20. Cyl 2, water jacket.
    21. Cyl 3, water jacket.
    22. Cyl 4, water jacket.
    That's all for now. Forgot to take the underside of the head.
     

    Attached Files:

    #28 leeb18c, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  9. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Place holder #1
     
  10. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Place holder #2
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Anyone on in-the-know care to comment on the conditions of those cylinder walls? @danlatu ? Looks terrible to me. Maybe all stems from that goo in picture #3? And how much different would the pictures be, with an OCC from day one??

    Keep going, pull the engine and clean everything?

    (BTW, we wouldn't have the OxyClean, but wife insisted, when we were shopping at Costco a few months ago. Precognition...:whistle:)
     
    #31 Mendel Leisk, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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  12. amos

    amos Active Member

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    Yep @danlatu will soon give us a full report. Cant wait.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I wonder if the photography could be making it hard to tell ... in several of the shots, it looks to me as if the cylinder walls may just be well polished, and reflecting the gradoo on the piston faces.

    -Chap
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Interesting, succinct, and completely new word to me:

    gradoo

    One definition: something you might scrape off the bottom of your shoes.

    And I think you're right there, you can see reflection of that hatched circle on cylinder wall. Maybe poster can clarify:

    upload_2017-11-5_10-33-14.png
     
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  15. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    Has this motor ever run low on oil? Increased engine wear is the result. The vertical lines on the cylinder walls is wear from the piston and/or ring lands. Oil will stick to these grooves and burn on the compression cycle while creating more blow-by/crankcase pressure. You look like you still have a good cross hatch pattern, as long as it is not glass smooth you should be fine. I would just throw on another head gasket and make sure that the block and head surfaces are very clean. If you flip you head upside down with the valves closed, pour water to see if all the valves fully seat without water leaking through them. You may need to turn the cams a little to check this. If the cams do not fully seat, you could have carbon deposits on the edges and may need to lap the valves. I am not sure how much life you trying to squeeze out of the motor but everything done correctly will ensure increased power with better efficiency. If one cylinder does not have properly seated valves, that cylinder will have lower compression numbers creating imbalance and engine vibration. Machine shops offer this service that dealers use and by talking to a mechanic at the dealership, you can figure out who they use in your area. You can also do it yourself with the correct tools.



    Screen Shot 2017-11-05 at 1.45.22 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-11-05 at 1.44.37 PM.png
     
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  16. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    I'm going to post a few more pics and it's all from reflection.

    Yes, the cylinder wall are fine with still alot of cross hatch patterns left. It's just the reflection make it look really bad and very hard to take pic with reflection and blown highlights. The valves are fine too but I don't have the tool to remove the valves and change valve oil seals. :( I was cleaning the intake and exhaust ports with brakekleen and it does not at all leak out from valves but I don't know the condition of the valve seats. I also don't want to do too much since I just need another 50-100k miles out of this car. Thanks.
     
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  17. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Seems like I can't edit my old posts. Here are the last round of pictures since there is not much in reassembling everything back together.

    1. nice copper spray.
    2. Cyl blocks and water jackets.
    3. Head/valves cleaned
    4. gasket on block.
    5. head.
     

    Attached Files:

    #37 leeb18c, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  18. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Now some thoughts and bad news. :(

    This job can be done in about 16hrs. There is plenty of room in the front of engine to deal with timing chain cover unlike Hondas. Very easy to remove crank bolt unlike Hondas. :) Majority of my time spent is dealing with wiring, removing stuck hoses, and several EGR cooler removal/install.

    The chain cover install was not the hardest but squeezing out the RTV from the tube is very furstrating/annoying. I wish there is something like caulking gun. Very hard to get uniform bead but I think it's ok. It's not as scary as I thought it would be. :)

    Made couple of minor mistakes that takes up extra times, forgot to put EGR shim so I have to loosen the EGR cooler again. Forgot to put Fuel injector rails before EGR cooler so that's another removal/loosening of EGR cooler. :( Forgot to connect Engine coolant temp connector and got P0118.

    The worse is, I was in a hurry and lazy and used my marking on the timing chain re-install and probably missed one tooth since my marking was not very precise and got P0011. I think the crank and cam position sensor reading are not matching. I hope I didn't bend any valves. :( Engine started very smooth and not a strange noise at the startup or during running. So hopefully everything is ok. Now I have to go check the timing marks and indicators on the chain and figure out if I need to pull the chain cover again. :(

    Would I do it again, maybe. Would I just drop another engine instead of doing it in the car, it's 50/50, since it still require alot of time to clear of wiring/connections to pull the engine, unless, your engine is quite messed up. I think I can now probably do it in 10-12 hrs for this head gasket job. That's my thought.
     
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  19. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    If the timing is off too much the piston can slap a valve, resulting in a bent or broken valve. I am so sorry to hear this. Measure twice and cut once. It is a learning experience. I give you an "A" for effort. If you just remove the valve cover and timing chain tensioner you might be able to check to see if timing is correct. Piston #1 has to be tdc. I have plenty of pics for perfect timing on my rebuild page.
     
    #39 danlatu, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  20. leeb18c

    leeb18c Active Member

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    Thanks. Let's hope nothing is bent.
     
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