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Auxiliary Battery Problems; Sometimes Dead sometimes auto restart

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by SlambK, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. SlambK

    SlambK Junior Member

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    Hi all!

    Hoping to get some advice on whats going on with my battery/start up.

    In May of 2016 I replaced my failing auxilary battery with an "Optima 8171-767 YellowTop Deep Cycle & Starting AGM Battery" About 8-10 months ago it started exhibting some strange behavior. Occasionally warning lights would come on (red triangle, check engine, and( (!)) ) sometimes they'd stay on, sometimes not.

    Occasionally (once every few weeks) upon turning off the car it would immediately turn right back on with a bevy of warning lights and fans running.

    One day I walked out (after having driven in the night before) and found that the car was totally dead, would not start at all, no power. Came back a few hours later and it started up fine no problem. It has only done with twice, once a few months ago and just now before I started writing this post (not sure if it will turn on when I get home from work).

    A few days ago I checked the load on the battery using the maintenance menu. I checked it a few different ways, though I think I accidently had the air on during all tests.

    with no brake, and the power button pressed only once: battery showed 12.2 v
    pressing the power button a second time dropped to: 11.6v
    turning on headlights dropped it to: 11.4v
    turning the car on brought it up to: 14v


    The car has about 110,000 miles on it. I bought it from my mom at around 80,000 miles, who bought it new in 2005. Recently (about 5 months ago) I replaced the inverter coolant pump (myself) and that seems to have worked fine. Headlights are a little dim, but may also be from how cloudy they are.


    Any ideas or should I just order a new battery? If so any recommendations? I can't remember why I bought this one specifically.
     
  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    Is the ground wire from the battery to the car body loose?
     
  3. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    batteries fail for all kinds of reasons, vibration, heat, ect... have the battery tested where you got it and if its bad they will prorate a replacement.. 11.6 volts is considered bad in a prius
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    could be the battery had a low charge when you installed it.
     
  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    It should have recharged over 8-10 months of use. If there were a poor ground connection that could affect voltage readings, charging, & vehicle behavior.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    depends on how it's driven.
     
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  7. SlambK

    SlambK Junior Member

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    Got home from work, still wouldn't start up. I unplugged the two cables that plug into the aux battery and plugged them back in firmly and the car started up. I'm not sure I understand at all how these plug in cables could be responsible for all the intermittent problems I've been having, and I assume if I check the load on the battery it will still be "bad."

    No, the ground seemed to be quite firm at both ends. The positive connection on the battery is not as tight, but certainly not loose.


    For what its worth it is quite hot where I live- so hot in fact that parts of the car have just been falling off. The plastic bolts in my driver side rear view mirror crumbled last year, the part where you grab on to unlock the back hatch came off and is now only attached by the electric cord and two clip screws, and the middle console screws broke as well. Unfortunately I bought the battery (new) on eBay over a year and a half ago, so I have a feeling they won't be giving me a refund, partial or otherwise.

    But that leads me to my next question. Any recommendations on which battery to buy? I'm hoping this really is just an aux battery problem..but it concerns me that the battery went bad this quickly, as I know I checked the volts when I first installed it.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    get an oem at the dealer, check the voltage before installing. should be 13+.

    how many miles a year do you drive? maybe you need a trickle charger.
     
  9. SlambK

    SlambK Junior Member

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    Does buying an oem battery from the dealer have a particularly longer warranty? I have had repeated bad experiences with the Toyota dealership here (they wanted to charge me $600 to install new wheel-well covers after failing to tell me that the bumper guard was dragging on the ground the last time I'd been in. Then wanted an equally insane amount to replace the inverter coolant pump.) and would prefer to avoid giving them any business. Though I guess if I was just buying the battery from them, they can't try to fork me too badly...

    I probably drive it about 5-10k a year. It is my daily driver and I'd say I do drive most days (just not all that far usually).
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    all batteries have different warranties. i think the oem is 8 years, 2 full then prorated.
    there's nothing wrong with optima if you get a good one. that's the key, to test it before installing, and buy from a place that will honor the warranty.
    you can try different auto parts stores, and batteries plus bulbs.

    'just not that far' is a big problem.
     
  11. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    These voltages are not too terrible, the drop from 12.2 V to 11.4 V is reasonable, but, really, all they show is your battery is low and needs to be charged up. It is not so much the voltage itself, but whether the voltage holds steady at whatever load it is under, particularly the last one. Was it holding the voltage steady at 11.4, or was it dropping over time? If it was the former, try using a modern automatic battery charger with an AGM setting to charge it up. If it was the latter, then your battery is not in good shape and needs to be replaced.
    This shows the DC/DC converter is working properly to charge the 12 V battery,
    Your usage points to not enough driving to keep the 12 V battery fully charged, particularly the short daily drives. Investing in a good Schumacher, CTEK or Harbor Freight battery charger capable of a 4 Amp charge will be a good investment then charge your battery on a regular basis (fortnightly or monthly) to keep it in top shape.

    Having said that, I do not believe that your 12 V battery is the reason for the symptoms you detailed in your OP. You may have a combination meter on the verge of failure. For some reason removing the 12 V from the system, as you would do changing the battery, seems to send them over the edge. Normally this happens closer to the time you change the battery, so YMMV.

    I don't want to see you waste money on needless parts, or get distracted by a red herring that will not solve your original symptoms.
     
    #11 dolj, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  12. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    try brining it back to a local store that sells the same brand, in my area its Advanced Auto Parts.. the manager might work with you on any warranty left .. they did with me when mine died, it was in the car when I bought it and was only a year old..
     
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  13. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Apart from this mention, you haven't stated any information about what lights are on, whether they stay on or, go on and off. So can you tell us about that? If you have lights on, you have trouble codes set. You need to scan the computer(s) and tell us what codes are set.
    Unplugging those connectors removes 12 V power from the system. Doing this clears codes from some of the computers. Unfortunately for you, one code that behaves in the way you describing in your OP is one for a HV isolation fault, which can be a fault in either the HV battery, transaxle or A/C compressor. Getting the codes will confirm what is actually your problem.
     
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  14. SlambK

    SlambK Junior Member

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    Thanks, I'll call around.
    I guess I'm a little confused on the not driving the car enough part. If I drive my car during the day I will probably be in it for 30 minutes to an hour and a half total. However because of the size of my city most of these trips are probably limited to 10-15 minutes a piece. Though I also occasionally take the car on trips to the coast, have taken it on much longer multi-day trips, etc. I guess I just don't know much about car batteries though!

    The battery holds at 11.4. I will look into getting a trickle charger. Just to be clear the idea is that because I don't drive the car enough (or for long enough periods of time) I need something to occasionally bring the battery back up to full charge?

    And I agree, the battery doesn't seem to be "low" enough to be causing all of these problems. Certainly not the completely dead, and auto-restart issues.

    I sort of mentioned which lights were on in the first post, but the problem is these warning lights aren't consistent at all. One day the triangle, check engine and (!) were on, and then later turned themselves off. About a month or two ago the large Triangle was on for multiple days along with the check engine. And then they both turned off on their own. After the car wouldn't turn on at all the first time I took it in to have the codes read (after it mysteriously just started back up later) and the only code that came up was P3191 (engine will not start). For the past few weeks no warning lights have come on during regular usage. When the car does the auto-turn back on when I park and turn it off (again this only happens maybe once every few weeks), I am usually too flustered to remember to write down which lights are on - or to even write down which mode it has turned back on to (if I am recalling correctly, I think it is in the second mode, as if i had turned the car on with no brake). It only happens once every several dozen turn offs, which is long enough that I am taken by surprise each time.

    So i understand that the errors may still be there, but because the 12v is messing up it may be continously clearing the codes?
    The Hybrid battery was replaced about 2 years ago by the Toyota dealership. The car isn't showing any "driving" problems so a transaxle failure seems a bit..unlikely? Not sure what signs I'd see if the A/C Compressor was failing, but I can say that the A/C is pretty much always on (we have routinely had 100-110 weather for weeks on end this summer).

    If I drive it around for the next few days is it worth trying to read the codes again even if no warning lights show up?
     
  15. SlambK

    SlambK Junior Member

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    Also for what its worth... after two errands today, came out and turned it on and it didnt quite start up. tried again and and it started up fine. Interestingly the clock didn't reset..but it seems to have sometime after I reset it this morning. The sensor for the gas tank and reset, etc.


    Should I be checking for a short (and any recommendations on how I would go about doing so?) or be checking the fuses?
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if everything has power, it's not a fuse. more likely low voltage.

    to clarify, prius does a pretty good job of painting the 12v, but it must be driven very couple days for an hour or so. but that's not scientific, just a guess.

    it may be that you drive enough, but you need to start with a fully charged battery. prius does a poor job of charging up the 12v, and needs to be driven a lot for that to happen. before losing out the battery, get an inexpensive charger, then monitor it.
    even if you buy a new battery, someone needs to check the voltage before installation.
     
  17. psusi

    psusi Junior Member

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    No, it is not. It is a bit low, but a bad battery will quickly drop below 11 volts heading to 10 before long with the headlights on.

    No; the HV battery has an 8 year flat warranty. The 12v battery is an expected replacement item with no warranty. Dealerships often charge way too much money for them and the factory ones don't last for squat. Mine died after 2 years and so did the factory replacement I got from the dealer. Got the optima one and it's been fine for 6 years, which is far longer than I've ever had a 12v battery last in the Florida heat.

    The fact that it is intermittent suggests a bad connection. Try cleaning the connections with some sandpaper. Also the low voltage indicates you may not be driving it long enough to fully recharge it. Leave the car on for half an hour to charge it, then shut it down and check the voltage again and see if it is higher.
     
  18. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    11.6 is extremely low for a 12 volt battery. Basicly dead. So low that it's probably throwing the big red exclamation point upon boot up. It only flashes once but it's not part of the bulb check routine so it's noticeable.
    That's the only warning the car gives you. I saw it on mine when the oem battery died after 7 years.

    It's really the only car that will never show you a resting charge level above 12.6.
    Most cars and I Have owned a lot with a full size battery will have a resting voltage of 13.3 or around there. You will never see that in a Prius.
    For whatever reason. Probably because it's so small. So with that issue if you add just Mostly small trips the battery will never see a good charge.
    And it will eat battery's.

    Dead 12 volt complaints is what made this site. There are thousands and thousands of posts about it.

    Just replace it....it's bad. The oem is a superior battery to an optima as I have owned both bought new. It's more expensive.
    My optima lasted 3 years and they gave me a new one. One day it just went 11.4 volts I saw the red exclamation point went oh no and out it came.
    That was after many months if maintence charging.

    Wish I had bought the factory stock battery.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have been accused of puling the 12v card way too often.:oops:
     
  20. psusi

    psusi Junior Member

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    No, no, no. A 12v battery is not considered fully discharged until 10-10.5 volts. When my two factory batteries died, the computer did not start complaining until 10.5 volts. It would still start up and the lights would only be on for a few seconds as long as it was over 10.0 volts.

    A bad battery that needs replaced will quickly drop below 11 volts with the load of the headlights on. If it holds above 11, it just needs recharged. And virtually everyone on the forums agrees that the optima battery is far better than the factory one.