main battery rebuild

Brandon,

First, my modules were from a Gen2 battery so they had (after rebalancing) over 6.5 amp hours of capacity and they stopped automatically at just over 8 volts. The Supermate is limited to 5w heating capacity so at almost 8 volts, it can only discharge at a rate of 0.6-0.7 amps which translates to over 10 hours per discharge cycle. The charge cycle is faster, but a full 3 times discharge/charge balancing regime took me about 1.5 days for one module and I had 27 modules that needed balancing.

I have no experience with Gen1 module as I stick with the stronger Gen2 ones (in 2009 the modules were improved again to handle 30% higher currents).

JeffD

 

these 2 new chargers can discharge at 1.0 amp. that still should take a long time to go through it's cycles. i spent a solid 48 hours charging 38 nimh modules 3x, thinking they were discharging as well. it alarmed me each time they were finished. with lack off instructions of how these chargers work it's hard to know what to do. i even youtube'd it. i balanced all the modules voltages before bolting them together of course. put everything back together and drove it 50 miles on a test drive. no problems yet. but the cells aren't truly balanced at this point, just charged really really good i guess. that job seems excessively tiresome.

i did suggest replacing the modules with gen 2's. but the owner of the taxi didn't think the vehicle was going to make it much farther without another major problem, it's clocked in at 255k miles. watch it would probably go 500k now that he thinks that. or a month cause another module goes. DOH! ahh... 1 year or one mile warranty! which ever comes first then it's void.

i appreciate your response and thanks again.

brandon

 

Hi Brandon,

Where is this Prius taxi?

Without the first discharge metric for each module, we have no idea about the actual amp-hour capacity of the modules. So the weak ones are likely to fail in service.

Bob Wilson

 

santa cruz california. i told him his modules were weak and bound to fail. he wasn't going to wait 5 weeks for that procedure. what would you even charge on the invoice? i already cut him a huge deal in not counting the 48 hours i spent charging all the modules individually 3 times. living in my shop to finish that task was enough to loose my entire weekend. i told him that it would be best just replace all the modules with new or refurbished/balanced gen 2 modules. the gen 1's aren't anything to waste your time with cause they are obsolete and really hard to find. i also told him there was no warranty and that i will see him in a month.

i'm just learning and i'm finding the appropriate tools an knowledge as i open myself up to the prius world. sure i may not succeed the first time but i pick myself up learn what i did wrong and try again. i'm in the school of hard knocks being in business for myself, and some times the critical information doesn't unfold all at once.

side note what is the max load that you can put on these modules to discharge them (maximum discharge rate on the charger aside)? i have a maximum allowable limit of 1 Amp on these new chargers. i heard i still shouldn't go over 0.7 amps anyways. i also heard that you only have to discharge the batteries to 80%. i remember leaving one of the modules on the charger with it set to discharge 3 times overnight. it didn't stop saying "FULL" on it or "discharging" on it so, at any time, so i assumed that it was finished doing it's job. i need better tools to do another battery pack if that's the case. or better instructions. "there's... gotta be another way." James T. Kirk

besides this prius is just a stepping stone for my taxi driver. he's going to get a tesla next and he just wanted to the prius to go a few more miles.

thanks
brandon

 

Horse, water, drink. Don't cheat yourself when he comes back. Hiding the real cost from him does not favors.

I call it 'tuition in the school of hard knocks.' GOOD LUCK!

There are not any 'production ready' tools for doing battery refurbishment. I've had some ideas but we run into the same problem of 'ones-twosies'. Not enough volume to justify the design and build.

Not sure I can relate to this customer. The NHW11 Prius is 10 year old technology and the Tesla is so much different.

Bob Wilson

 

That's how I learned the process, but with some help from those that had gone before.

These modules have a rated capacity of 6.5 amp hours so their "1C" rate is 6.5 amps. In use they are often pushed to 100 amps, but I would limit Gen1s to 80 amps, Gen2s (2004-2008) to 100 amps and 209+ to 130 amps. At all times provide cooling so that the module doesn't overheat (deadly) and side clamping so that they don't bulge/burst (also deadly).

The charger/balancer will enforce its power dissipation limit.

My SuperMate DC6 stops discharging at a module voltage of 6v (1v per cell) and stores the milliamp-hour capacity provided by the module during the discharge cycle.

He is a richer man than I.

JeffD

 

santa cruz Ca is where i am.

well that is apparent now. i understand what i did wrong and when it comes back to me i will discount the labor and replace his modules with fully balanced gen 2 modules like i recommended in the first place. i'm just getting him down the road for the cheapest least time consuming possibility like he asked for. i tried scouring the electronics stores for a load tester but came up empty handed. there was only one module with a volt missing, it must of had a bad cell. it wasn't a total melt down in there. so i did my best but this is the first, not the last time i fix a pack. methods will be honed. i wish i talked to you sooner next time i won't hesitate to ask.

thanks for your help
brandon

 

MY BATT DIED THIS WEEK AT 159.575 KM .

 

In the US it would be replaced for free under warranty. Early HV battery failure in a Gen2 or Gen3 Prius is usually due to elevated battery temperature which is why you should always use the AC in warm weather to keep the battery cool (cabin air is blown through the modules to cool it).

JeffD

 

BELIEVE ME AS A GREEK AMERICAN WHEN I TELL YOU MY AC NEVER STOPS RUNNING . AND IT SEEMS LIKE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BATTERY LONGEVITY . BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHERS MANY OTHERS THAT DO AND DON'T RUN THE AC AND STILL THEY'VE LOST THEIR BATTERY. TOYOTA MUST BE DOING SOMETHING WRONG AND DON'T ADMIT IT

 

i just was informed by another cabdriver that just joined the prius forum that all the priuses in his area have lost their batteries between 120-180000km thats six out of six taxis

 

This is the NHW11 (2001-03) model forum but I notice yours is the ZVW30 (2010-current) model. We also have a 2010 Prius but a pattern like this is curious:

• Are you typically leaving the car in READY or when waiting for a fare, do you still shutdown the car?
• What sort of terrain (or perhaps a city)?
• What sort of temperatures?
• Any problems with the 12V battery?
• Has anyone tried using a Prius-aware scanner to see what is going on with the traction battery?
• Would anyone have a GPS with data recording (i.e., Garmin nuvi) for route analysis?

I would like to collaborate with you on this problem as we have a 2010 Prius:

• 70,000 km
• typical commuting route
  • ~50 km/day
  • +/- 10m/day
  • ~60 km/hr
• Huntsville, AL
  • river valley with 160m hills
• temperature ranges
  • 15.7C average, 31.7C max, -1.5C min

If you don't mind, perhaps we could restart this thread in the "Gen III" technical forum?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

sorry to jack in to your post but I just read it and I'm wondering if any of you can help..

my cars throwing the exact same 3 codes…

i just started a thread a moment ago, my cars throwing the same 3 codes as FKZ however when i opened my hv traction battery
the cells tested normal (this was before my car stopped running) and I can clearly see that the ECU & wire harness have signs of fire and black residue the wire harness where it plugs into the ECU were burnt up.


clic here to check out my post:
FIRE! no start P3006 - P3016 - P3030 - parts & install ECU + Wire Harness to Traction Batt | PriusChat

question? Can i install Gen 3 cells in a Gen 1 battery case + using a gen 1 oem ecu and subsequent matching wire harness to traction battery harness.. etc…or whats the best method (not that i could afford to buy new Gen 3 cells but since I'm rebuilding it i may as well know the best method,, i could try and sell my Gen 1 cells.

 

How did your battery rebuild work out? We own a 2001 and need to replace the main battery. Any advise would be greatly appreciated- dealer wants too much ! Thank you