Prime vs. Hyundai Ioniq

the Ioniq hybrid now has plenty of stock around the system, and the plugin seems to have little lead times, but the Ioniq EV you are looking at 6-9 months from order to delivery unless you can find a cancelled order due to battery shortages

EV's ordered in feb are just getting delivered

 

Consumer Reports just reviewed the Iconiq. Seems it doesn't measure up to the Prius in a number of areas (handling, quietness, braking, transmission smoothness, and so on). Measured gas mileage is the same too. Not too surprising, I guess. See the other thread on a Consumer Reports review of the Prime for a pdf of a summary review.

 

The biggest thing that the Ioniq has over Prius is:
- cheaper starting MSRP
- better acceleration, more horse-power
- higher EPA overall MPG (so in theory a more efficient car, but in practice may be a different story)
- extra 5th seat (vs the Prime)
- better warranty
- Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration
- more traditional styling (subjective) - looks more like a traditional car

 

The plug-in version was reported to trip out of Ev mode at low throttle settings, which is a total deal-breaker for me. I wouldn't even consider a car that did that, and in fact that's one of the main reasons I never even considered a PIP.

 

- cheaper starting MSRP (until the Hyundai optional TSS-P equivalent is included in price and Federal Tax credit)
- better acceleration, more horse-power (Toyota uses net power to wheels and instant EV torque)
- higher EPA overall MPG (so in theory a more efficient car, but in practice may be a different story) (until the TSS-P equivalent model, the basic Ioniq, not the Blue is used)
- extra 5th seat (vs the Prime) (Prime has console for rear passengers)
- better warranty (new Hyundai model vs Toyota experience)
- Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration (makes phone calls and plays music)
- more traditional styling (subjective) - looks more like a traditional car (stepped transmission engine whining)

Bob Wilson

 

And some hate CVT whine.

Choice is good.

 

I recommend a test drive in a Prime as the P610 control laws are different and the EV laws are less frantic.

Bob Wilson

 

My father in law tested IONIQ and he was disappointed at the transmission, said it was shifting too hard. Must be because electric motor is between engine and transmission and can not help to soften transmission changing gears.

 

And they might find something else to dislike. As I said, choice is good. Any growth we see recently in the hybrid market has more to do with there being more choices than the few torchbearer models getting better.

What transmission type does he normally drive? At least in the US, most car buyers likely don't know the difference between the types, just that it is an automatic. The difference in behavior between a DCT and step transmission can be an issue for some when switching between them. Its different from what they are use too is enough for some to pass over perfectly fine automobiles.

 

He drives manual, but he is looking into automatic for a new car, he liked the shifting in Mercedes B class, as far as I know it also uses a DCT in 1.5 diesel available here in EU.

 

larger hatch?

 

I think the Germans have been doing DCTs for longer. Hyundai had issues/complaints about the DCT in the Tucson.

The electric motor should allow shifting the DCT at lower speeds where they tend to be harsher to be smoothed out. It is Hyundai's first parallel hybrid with a DCT. They likely have room to improve.

How exactly does 2 suitcases and two duffle bags compare to three suitcases? Which set can hold more stuff? Is this optimal arrangement, or annoyed kid loading?

 

no idea, what are you referring to?

 

I want to think my Prime is superior to the Ioniq Plug-In, but honestly if I had not had to replace my dying Altima and had more time to consider I would be hard on the fence.

In terms of looks I like the Prime very slightly more (especially since it doesn't try to blend in), but the larger trunk and 5th seat look real nice now that I've had the Prime for a few months. From what I have seen about the dual-clutch it's a even split between reviewers preferring it to the Prime/Prius's eCVT since the Ioniq has gear shifts but "it seems slow" and "balky."

Had the Ioniq Plug-in been available when I was looking for a new car the only thing holding me back from the Ioniq would be Hyundai's reliability record. From a number of friends I have heard Hyundai's were built kind of cheap and began to fall apart, inside and out, after a few years. Despite this Hyundai's newer cars these past few years are looking like they may hold up better.

 

There are people who prefer having gear shifts? Frankly, I'll never buy a car again that has discrete gear ratios. CVT or Ev for me since 2004.

 

The CR chart comparing the cars. They use number suitcases and duffle bags to measure the cargo space.

The plug in Ioniq still isn't available. With the motor before the transmission, how well it is accepted by the public is an unknown. Having a transmission modify the motor's output can allow the use of a smaller, cheaper motor. There is work on going for BEV transmissions for this reason. The original plans for the Tesla Roadster called for a two speed one.

The problem with it is that most buying a plug in want the one speed drive of current designs.

There are enough that prefer gear shifts that smooth running CVTs get saddled with psuedo ones.

 

Which ones?
Dashboard summary July 2017 | PriusChat

The reason I ask is Google seems to find only ordinary ICE cars with CVTs trying to replicate a stepped transmission. In those cases, it makes sense as efficiency is not really their goal but rather manufacturing simplicity.

Bob Wilson

 

The only hybrid I know has them is the CR-Z. The Lexus might have it as an option.

Among non-hybrids, fake gears is the norm now. The Corolla has them, and appears all the Honda, Nissan, and Subaru CVTs do. The fake shift shifting could be just a performance option, or it might be possible to turn it off. It depends on the brand and model.

The only car models that I know don't have them is the Mirage and Spark. Though the Spark does have a hi and lo output on the CVT for cruising or acceleration.

 

Thanks. Apparently The CR-Z ended in 2016 and the numbers were not so good. As for Lexus, other than the recently discontinued 600h, no interest on my part.

That is OK, we won't have to deal with them in the fuel efficient community.

Bob Wilson

 

Well, the Corolla Eco has them. "However, Toyota engineers have seen to it that the engine doesn’t drone on like some homesick sow imitating a dyno pull. At wider throttle openings and higher revs, Toyota has programmed in some artificial steps with up to 750-rpm drops that feel like the gearchanges in a step transmission, although anyone even mildly in tune with the act of driving can see through the ruse." - 2014 Toyota Corolla LE Eco Test – Review – Car and Driver Which sounds like how the Nissan CVT shifting works.

The fact is that car buyers in North America are used to transmissions shifting, and different things tend not to be as accepted by people. Fake shift points might prove to be a fad and fade away as CVTs become better accepted. Now they are there to comfort the typical car buyer, like making a hybrid that appears less weird. Some will still dislike the constant hum of a CVT.

People generally like the no shifting of direct drive EVs, but electric motors have different torque curves than ICES, and, more importantly, are quieter. they don't carry the negatives of the ICE plus CVT.

People buying hybrids expect the car to be different, and are willing to try something new, but remind us what percent of new car sales are hybrids. Without high gas prices, most are happy sticking to what they know. Parallel hybrids with shifting transmissions might be better sellers in time, because they aren't as different.