Weber State University does P610 deep dive

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jun 15, 2017.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Jun 15, 2017
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  2. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Thanks for sharing.
    Although prof. Kelly stated that the PSD (Power Split Device) was not changed at all since P111 (1st gen) I did find one change: in P610 (4th gen and Prime) the number of planets has been reduced from 4 to 3 ! Since with 3 planets, the torque carrying capacity of each tooth in the PSD (sun, planet or ring) is 1.333 (4/3) times the capacity when using 4, IMO it may indicate increased confidence by Toyota in the PSD service longevity.
     
    #2 giora, Jun 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no idea what i'm looking at, but fascinating nonetheless.
    would love to see him compare prius v ionic.
     
    #3 bisco, Jun 16, 2017
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  4. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing this. I find it very interesting. Layers of clever engineering.

    Simplicity through complexity.
     
    #4 KrPtNk, Jun 16, 2017
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It took me a long time to finally understand the dynamics of the Gen-1 transmission. I'd like to see is an equivalent, dynamics analysis of the transmission . . . which would probably be of equal length. Understand these are my questions, not a criticism:
    • 'heretical mode' - when MG2 works as a generator to power MG1 to provide counter torque occurs about 25 mph in the Gen-1. Does this same speed threshold occur with the P610?
    • I have to review it but towards the end he discussed (if I understood it) that 'MG1 is held stationary and the engine rpm more closely follows the vehicle speed.' - this suggested some speculations over the past decade that a mechanical brake on MG1 might significantly improve transmission efficiency by avoiding the electrical load path. BUT I could have misunderstood his discussion and sad to say in this video he didn't have dynamic metrics from a running Prius Prime.
    Bob Wilson
     
    #5 bwilson4web, Jun 16, 2017
  6. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Wow. Thanks Bob.
    Someone really needs to get him a cameraman. I can't believe he's talking, taking it apart, and working the camera all at the same time.
     
    #6 TonyPSchaefer, Jun 16, 2017
  7. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    A magnet is back to pick up magnetic metal in ATF, last seen in Gen 1.
    This has external ATF plumbing, so those of you wanting an ATF filter can add one.
    It features no internal coolant, just an external heat exchanger with ATF.
    He clearly shows drip tubes cooling M/G1 and M/G2 with ATF.
     
    #7 JimboPalmer, Jun 16, 2017
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    FYI, Professor Kelly checks the comments of the YouTube version. I recommend leaving a 'Thank you'.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Jun 16, 2017
  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Do not know about the Gen 2 but Gen 3 (P410) does have a magnet at the bottom.
     
    #9 giora, Jun 20, 2017
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    About transmission and engine oil pan magnets, they should be in the drain bolt. That way when the oil is changed, the debris on the magnet can be inspected and removed.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Jun 20, 2017
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    The benefit of working near a mag-particle inspection room (ever since the early 1980's) - it's easy to drop off a couple drain plugs so they can get magnetized.
    :)
    .
     
    #11 hill, Jun 20, 2017
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Many transmissions simply don't have a drain.
     
    #12 Trollbait, Jun 20, 2017
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    A manufacturer's fail, is an opportunity for your d.i.y. skills to shine ....

    [​IMG]

    .
     
    #13 hill, Jun 20, 2017
  14. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Wow great video. I'm always fascinated by these.
     
    #14 farmecologist, Jun 20, 2017
  15. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Another one for my collection. These transaxles are amazing.
     
    #15 jerrymildred, Jun 20, 2017
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Except in the case that most automatics have a filter to replace, and the pan needs to be dropped either way.
     
    #16 Trollbait, Jun 20, 2017
  17. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    I wonder what he does with with the car after he reassembles the transmission. I think he said he has to reinstall it when he has finished his exploration.

    I assume the car Is kept as a teaching resource at the college. Is there any way it could be sold? Wouldn't the warranty be voided.
     
    #17 KrPtNk, Jun 20, 2017
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It might just be that some these vehicles' parts weren't up to spec, so they're strictly used as demo/teaching models.

    Wow, thinking of that stater, & how much of that unit is now copper rods formed into shape & welded into position instead of windings ... what a trip.
    .
     
    #18 hill, Jun 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  19. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    #19 JamesBurke, Jun 20, 2017
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  20. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    The magnet area is considerably larger than the drain bolt cross sectional area, so, may be more effective for "ATF for life".
     
    #20 giora, Jun 20, 2017
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