I am just curious what Toyota may do for its customers when higher energy density battery technology becomes affordable in the years to come. For example, when Nissan started using 30 kWh batteries in 2016 Leaves, they made a choice NOT to allow the current owners of older model Leaves to access the 30 kWh batteries. Those who purchased Leaves, thinking that Nissan will let them purchase new and larger capacity batteries in their future, were denied of such upgrade. I was very disappointed and could not help feeling being betrayed by the company even though they made no such promise. Would Toyota offer the current Prime owners higher energy density replacement batteries in the future unlike Nissan? If they do, I will be a loyal Toyota customer for life.
BMW did the same with the English speaking buyers. The existing 60Ahr battery has been replaced by a similar weight, identical size, 96Ahr battery. But the only upgrade path is in the EU and does not include the UK. North America is not on the list. Bob Wilson
You will probably have to do it via vehicle replacement. That's the way of high tech. They will probably have new features (safety, piloting, ...) that nobody even knows about today. I'm confidant that my prime will retain a good amount of value when it's ready to trade, but I bought it new, so it will never really make any monetary sense. The way of high tech. jp
yep, you're not getting squat from toyota. pony up for a new car, or get stuck in the past with a pip, like me.
Toyota has been extremely helpful re: Hybrid battery in-kind replacements in the USA. I don't think they have turned down a single replacement (under warranty) for user abuse reasons. And they have been quite helpful for those close but over warranty and beyond. I find it hard to criticize Toyota for hypothetical lack of good faith for a hypothetical wishful thinking situation that I do not really expect to happen. Toyota is not even marketing a limited range EV. A PHEV that gets a little less range is not really a bad situation. Lease is available for those thinking PHEV is a disposable vehicle (which contradicts the thought that Plug_ins are better for the environment).
The only company that has been able to make good on the battery upgrade is Tesla. Since battery technology has been improving much slower than the attrition rate of vehicles in my family, this upgrade option is not a priority to me. In other words, I'm unlikely to replace the batteries on a 2011 Leaf for ~$5000 + labor for a 24 kWh battery + the unknown delta for 30 kWh battery when the existing car is nearly 7 years old. It makes more sense to move into a newer vehicle with more technology and safety equipment. I liken the battery upgrade to a smartphone. Apple will happily replace the battery for your iPhone but don't expect more capacity.
Upgrading the traction pack really isn't as simple as assembling the battery and updating the software on a car. The new chemistry could require better cooling, or the different weight change the car's handling and behavior in a crash. For most car companies, the cost simply isn't worth it.
A common quote from a rocketry forum I follow: "Rockets are not Legos". Neither are cars (for the most part), they are integrated systems.
It's no different than expecting Toyota to retrofit your 20 year old Corolla with a new Corolla engine. If you wanted to, find an expert that's willing to shoehorn the new engine in. But as a manufacturer, there's no obligation. They're a corporation. Why not purchase a new vehicle if/when the time comes for replacement. If not, then just keep the current car. Replacement batteries can also pose a problem with after sales. First, they'll be expensive so the uptake will be very small (And as a manufacturer, it's expensive to keep a few batteries just lying around for the purpose of upgrading existing cars. They'd rather use those batteries in the new car production). Then comes warranty - how do you determine the warranty to offer to the customer? What about the software. What if the new battery was of a different chemistry? It'll need a reprogram so that the cpu protects the new battery and offers the same performance that the customer got with the old battery. You also need to somehow keep track of which vehicles have been upgraded and which haven't. (This is why I'm also leering of what Elon's doing with the Model S and eschewing model years. As a used car buyer, you can't tell what the car has. A S 60 could be an S 75 if the owner upgraded afterwards for example but you won't know until you charge it at home)
Tideland Prius and all of you make sense. Perhaps this is an unreasonable expectation that better battery will be made available to owners of Toyota's technological flagship years past its newness. On the other hand, what an opportunity for Toyota to break from the rest! Toyota prides in itself as the world's leading environmentally conscientious corporation. What better ways are there to demonstrate it against its own obvious financial gain than to retrofit new technology to the past masterpiece, preserving materials and energy in the current/future world of wastefulness? Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
In the US, the Yaris automatic only has 4 speeds, while everybody else has at least 6 or a CVT. This lets them squeeze the last penny out of the 4 speed factory tooling. Still using NiMH in the Prius and other hybrids is mostly for the same reason. Toyota still supports hydrogen fuel cells. For Japan, they are converting Australian coal into hydrogen, and shipping to home, because that is cheap, and looks good for Japan's carbon emission balance. Toyota puts more stock in their bottom line than the environment, like most other corporations. The Prius is a great car, but without Japan being resource poor and its government pushing for lower emission vehicles, the car may not have happened.
I stand corrected. Even if/when Toyota cares more about perception than action, would it do the right thing for the shake of advancing its perceived environmental championship? I better stop because I am sounding like a politician, perception is more important than facts... Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
Only car company doing an upgrade is Tesla for the original Roadster. No other car company is going to do it in the foreseeable future for the same reason they don't offer to upgrade the engine or transmission; there isn't as much money in it as selling a new car, nor will many people be willing to pay for it on an old car. I'd say Toyota isn't doing it for perception, but like other companies, finances are a strong driver. This isn't bad, because saving money is the strongest drive for switching to more efficient means.
