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Replacing Battery for 2006 Prius to Lithium Ion

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Firefoxyoshi, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Firefoxyoshi

    Firefoxyoshi New Member

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    Hey all. Just recently bought a Prius about six months ago from a dealership. Had about 105k miles on it, battery was replace round 85k from the original owner (I'm the second owner) and recently the red triangle light came on, along with the brake failure light. Which really upset me, because I love this car a lot and it's also very young into its life, especially being with me.

    I took it into a couple places to see what was wrong. One place said the entire pack was basically dead, and the second place said two specific cells were weak, and that is usually means the pack needs to be replaced. Obviously I wasn't exactly happy about this, having the car for such a short period of time and all of a sudden I have to drop around $3000 to put a new battery in. I called a local shop and they offered to replace the battery with a lithium ion one (making me a plug-in Prius) for around $1700, but I've had friends tell me that changing to that style of battery will reduce the life expectancy of my car.

    I don't particularly want to replace the nickel battery with a lithium ion one unless I know it'll be worth it, but I also do not want to spend $3500 replacing the battery at a dealership when I just bought the car not long ago. Is there anything anyone can suggest I do? Be it replace the battery with a lithium ion, find someone to replace the cells, or anything of that sort? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!

    no one has ever changed to li-on, so you would have to get more details. $1,700. sounds way too low.
    if you don't go new, any repair or replacement will only be as good as the warranty, and the company standing behind it.
     
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  3. Firefoxyoshi

    Firefoxyoshi New Member

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    This is what I was thinking... When I asked them, they said it would be $1700 and have a year warranty and they would do a like of check-ins with me about the car. I checked their site and reviews on Yelp and they have nothing but excellent reviews from people, and I've been recommended to go to them from another mechanic.

    Also not a single person has gone to lithium ion with a 2006? That's... unnerving for me, especially since they said they do not replace batteries with other nickel ones (They told me they aren't in production anymore and are harder to find brand new, so that is why they replace with lithium ion.)
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    none that we know of, from 2004-2015. if they have done one, perhaps you can get a reference and talk to the owner.
    dealers carry standard brand new replacements, so now i'm concerned about their veracity.

    changing to li-on is more than changing the battery, the whole software system would have to be redesigned.
     
  5. Firefoxyoshi

    Firefoxyoshi New Member

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    Yeah, I would much rather a new nickel replacement, but cannot afford the $3000+ price tag, when I could, and would rather, be spending that on my loan to pay off the car.

    It sucks too cause I have a warranty with them that covers drivetrain and I've called multiple times trying to argue that the hybrid battery is considered part of the drivetrain, but they just come back saying that because it "isn't specifically said, a hybrid battery doesn't count. Also it isn't a lubricated part so it isn't covered." when no where in the contract I have does it even talk about hybrids in the least bit, whether they cover them or not. It's basically just a huge fiasco that I don't really want to deal with, especially when the dealership isn't working with me on anything at all and is considering this a wear and tear thing and not drivetrain.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, those warranties are a legal rip off, with all the words having been 'lawyered'.
    replacement batteries are no fun, especially if you can't diy. the best bet is probably a dorman with 3 year warranty, but you're still looking at $1,400. plus installation and warranty only on the part, no labor.
     
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  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I have to agree with @bisco. Dorman would be the best bet. If you like do-it-yourself projects, there are lots of threads here about replacing individual battery blocks, but you won't get as much life out of that. On the other hand, it would be much cheaper and a real learning experience if you're into that sort of thing.
     
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  8. Firefoxyoshi

    Firefoxyoshi New Member

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    I honestly wouldn't mind doing it myself. I've considered purchasing the cells (only two, so about $80) and just replacing them myself. However, I'm afraid of A. electrocuting myself, B. making things worse by breaking something else. Also, I've read that they will need to be rebalanced, and I have zero idea how to do that as well, let alone what tools I would need.

    I know it wouldn't get as much life as replacing the battery entirely, but I really need the car drivable as soon as possible and for as little as possible... I'm currently trying to talk with a friend about how much he would charge to do the labor if I bought the battery itself, but if that doesn't work, I may just end up doing the cells.

    It's frustrating too, cause the battery itself is only 30k miles old at most, I can't believe I would have to replace the entire thing already...
     
  9. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Can you point me in the direction of the shop that is doing lithium?

    I'm not sure how a lithium battery would in any way shorten the life of of your car. I've never heard of that.

    If it truly could be done with a reliable lithium solution I would install it in a heartbeat.
    But... if it sounds to good to be true... it probably is.

    Please contact me off directly with the shop info. 608-729-4082 or email [email protected]
    Inquiring minds want to know...
     
  10. Firefoxyoshi

    Firefoxyoshi New Member

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    Not a problem.

    And really? I had a really close friend tell me I shouldn't do it for a few reasons, one being that it'll end up shortening the life of the car, and that if left out in the heat, will end up causing it to catch fire. I do not have a garage to place it under, and it does get a bit hot in Maryland over the summers, so I wouldn't want to risk it catching fire or anything just sitting outside. Plus it being exposed to the elements and all...
     
  11. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Not true. New Prius is available with NiMH. In North America only Prius Two comes with them but on other places NiMH might be the only option. Modules that come in those can be put on all the previous models of Prius.
     
  12. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'm going to officially call this penalty. The BS flag has been thrown on the field. No one has even made a replacement NiMH battery module, much less a $1700 lithium-ion swap. Show it to me, as a tried and true direct swap of equivalent or better OEM capacity and I'll buy one right now.
     
  13. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Does you see laptops used outside regularly catching fire all around you?

    How about cell phones?

    Or power tools?

    Or electric cars like the Nissan Leaf?

    All these things have lithium batteries.

    Lithium battery packs that are properly built and managed do not catch on fire.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    your friend is (unfortunately) repeating fud, he has heard. almost all new ev's operate on lithium.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't think diy will work for you, it's a big commitment. if you want to throw in a couple new cells, you'll probably be doing it every few months, unless you get really lucky.
     
  16. Firefoxyoshi

    Firefoxyoshi New Member

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    I'm just relaying what I've been told from the place I talked with and seeing what options I have. I agree that it's insane that it is that low, which is why I have such a hard time going with them and instead am trying to replace the cells or pack itself with a nickel one.

    This is all entirely true. I've just heard from him and took his word to heart, probably a little too soon before doing my own research. And like I said, I wouldn't mind going with them, it's more I'm nervous to spend that much money with them, especially with a few people here saying that not only has it not really been done, but also way too low for the price. And that is definitely something I am more worried about now rather than it catching fire.
     
  17. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I'll report back here soon about the mythical $1,700 lithium pack replacement.

    I've seen it done. It ain't easy. And it certainly ain't $1,700.

    Stay tuned....
     
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  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Yeah, I think if we were all physically in the same place, we'd be circling around the project saying, "This I gotta see!" I can't quite imagine how the computer would handle the different chemistry of the lithium battery when it's made to handle NiMH. Please do let us know what you find out, Eric.

    But as for catching fire in the sun? That's about like teenagers telling each other that aspirin is a contraceptive. My L-ion powered PiP is sitting in the FLORIDA sun right now. I just checked, to be sure, and it's not on fire yet.
     
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  19. Rennie

    Rennie Junior Member

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    There are a few people who have added lithium onto the NiMH battery, but still needed the NiMH in place for it to work. Also costs a ton of money.

    As for replacing the battery. There is a tutorial on YouTube by some old guy in 3 steps. I replaced mine with a new battery, the battery was $2400. Dealer wanted around 700 to install, wasn't going to pay that!

    The one thing he doesn't show is moving the stuff attached to the old battery to the new one. But it really is just undoing bolts.

    Did the owner replace the battery with a new one or a reconditioned one? Or only replaced a few cells? A new battery should last another 10 years at least.

    Also check your 12V battery just in case.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  20. MattStevenson

    MattStevenson Member

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    So I had a customer tell me that her husband and his father replaced a couple dead cells together. They found videos on YouTube on how to do it. If you do your research you'll see that battery packs almost always fail because just a handful of cells go bad far before the others.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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