GM *Fast-tracking* development of plug-in hybrids

GM is just covering their asses for all the bad publicity they will be getting with the release
of the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car".The movie, was written and directed by Chris Paine.
Beginning in the late 1990s, several auto manufacturers built electric vehicles. With one small exception, all were offered for lease, not sale, as manufacturers considered the electrics a test fleet and wanted to maintain ownership of them. The movie's thesis: Those auto manufacturers, General Motors in particular with its EV1, went the electric-car route for one main reason: pending severe laws in California that called for ever-decreasing pollution standards and ever-increasing mileage from manufacturers if those manufacturers wanted to continue to do business in the state.Chris Paine, who was an EV1 driver, suggests that California politicians backed off the laws, thus making it unnecessary for manufacturers to invest further in electric-car technology. So when GM insists that public acceptance of the EV1 was unsatisfactory, Paine's movie says that it was a self-fulfilling prophecy, as GM let the EV1 die on the vine.

 

I'll believe it when I see it. For the moment, it doesn't seem like GM can even SPELL hybrid, much less develop a decent one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Jun 23 2006, 02:35 AM) [snapback]275707[/snapback]</div>

At least it will probably cause Toyota to move up production of a plug in version of the Prius.

George

 

> This must be the boldest pro-PHEV statement made by any manufacturer yet.

They didn't make a statement though. It's just a rumor; however, we have been expecting this type of panic response for quite awhile now. But keep in mind how many actual statements they have made in the past that were never delivered or eventually abandoned.

Of course, without any important plans revealed yet the market is definitely left with the "wait until they actually deliver something" attitude.

This fits the definition of vaporware all too well. It would be fantastic to finally have something competitive, especially like this. But like usual, it all comes down to timing. We know it will someday happen anyway and on-paper ideas is far different from on-road implementation.

How much will it cost? How long will the battery-pack last? What will be the maximum EV speed? What will be the acceleration characteristics? Will it be comfortable for a family? How many will they be producing per year? How long before the first one is delivered? Will it be designed to cope with the extreme heat of Arizona or the extreme cold of Minnesota?

There are lots of real-world questions to be answered first. The market in general will wait for them before responding, just like they did when the hybrids were brand new. That could take several years... depending on the price of gas. We'll see.

 

It seems more like a stunt to me. GM will lobby Congress for as long as possible to keep America addicted to gasoline. They will keep trying to convince America that their giant SUVs are a necessity.

Here’s a classic example. A lady at my workplace, lets call her Negative Nancy, is absolutely convinced she needs an SUV for her family. Nancy’s family consists of her, her husband, and their two-year-old son. Nancy drives an explorer and is thinking about upgrading to an Expedition. She states that she needs this amount of room so that she has more than enough room in front of her knees (6 inches – 1 foot) and enough room behind her so that her toddler in his child’s seat can’t kick her seat. Neither Nancy nor her husband is above 6’ tall. I am 6’7’’ and fit comfortably in my Prius. I told her this and she laughed. I then brought her down to my car and had her sit in it. She said that it had as much legroom as her explorer. Nancy has been mislead to believing that the only vehicle that her and her family can function in is an SUV.

Plus, it just doesn't seem to fit - GM and advanced technology?!? I think I'm going to have an aneurism.

 

I don't find it so hard to believe- they'll just add a 42V battery charger to their existing "hybrid" vehicles and presto, instant "plug-in hybrid"..

Don't laugh- GM is so clueless that this is exactly the sort of thing that they'd try...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Clean @ Jun 23 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]275778[/snapback]</div>

GM is very good at this. They are largely responsible for getting Eisenhower to build the US freeway system and were instrumental in all but eliminating decent public transportation in urban areas in the fifties, all in an effort to get the population of the US to rely soley on the automobile as the way to commute.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Clean @ Jun 23 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]275778[/snapback]</div>

With the reliability of GM's 'low-tech' vehicles always being near the bottom, one shudders at the thought of the reliability of a sophisticated, high-tech vehicle (such as a fully integrated hybrid) built by GM. They don't exactly have a good track record in this department (the old '4-6-8' Cadillac engine of the early eighties comes to mind).

It's unfortunate because, at one time, GM actually was a fairly reliable innovator. Back in the sixties, they came out with vehicles like the fiberglass Corvette, front-drive Oldsmobile Toronado, rear-engine Corvair (which really wasn't a bad vehicle), and the rear-transaxle Pontiac Tempest.

And back then, with guys like Ed Cole running GM, they'd stick with a new product and give it time to succeed. Nowadays, unless an innovative new product is an immediate sales success, it has a very short life. The Pontiac Fiero is the prime example of that. Initially, it was a miserably engineered car, but within a few years, they had worked the bugs out of it. But by then, GM had decided to kill it.

And then there's the Chevrolet Vega, a car that was engineered so badly in its entirety that it was simply unsalvagable. It was built and sold from 1971-1977. A lot of people who had previously had decent-enough GM built vehicles were 'burned' by this car and is one of the prime reasons the Japanese were able to gain a foothold in the US market. GM suffers the reputation it has today deservedly, for building and selling cars like the Vega.

Of course, Ford and Chrysler are just as responsible by building and selling cars like the Pinto and Aspen/Volare from the same time frame.

 

Given GM's track record, I understand people are skeptical, but if this is really their intention, I say more power to them! GM is the world's largest automaker, it's better for them to get on the HEV/PHEV bandwagon (since they lost their lead on the EV possible bandwagon). This is a good thing, for GM and the planet. Plus, it's the only way they can keep their position, by leapfrogging Toyota on the PHEV front.

The real surprise to me is that I expected Ford to do it first - they had the Th!nk car, and Bill is supposedly an environmentalist, putting a green roof on their Dearborn facility, although they treated Th!nk like GM treated the EV1. But both car companies desparately need to reshape themselves to stay competitive, and you bet they know it by now.

 

Toyota could probably retrofit the Prius with a mildly larger battery, a power plug, and an EV switch and have a even more killer product with little effort. If you could even just top off your battery pack at night and be able to EV it for short trips to the store, that'd be swell for FE.

The only question is, how much would that tax your electric bill, and is it worth the extra MPG? I know it would save OIL, but most electricity is fossil fuel-generated as well...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SCDrJ @ Jun 23 2006, 02:08 PM) [snapback]275993[/snapback]</div>

Economies of scale. The bigger factories convert fossil fuels (as well as other sources) to electricity more efficiently than our little engine, even with transmission line loss. They also get to control their emissions more centrally.

 

Oh come on people! GM has had two “Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles†on the market for a couple of years now . . . they are even "parallel" hybrid systems.

They are the GMC Sierra and Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid pickup trucks.

And this is how you plug them in . . .


http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05gmhybrid.htm

Of course their “Parallel" Hybrid does nothing to propel the vehicle forward . . . and the “Plug†is an outlet, not an inlet.
Don't think for a moment that what we consider a PHEV is what GM will build anytime in the near future.

 

Talk of a "Classic Example" relating to GM creapyness: BEAT THIS ! !
GM lobys hard for E85 (uh oh, get ready, that ought to be a clue )
Now, with only 10% of a gallon of fuel containing gas ... 90% grain alcohol, GM can claim their gas guzzlers for a HIGH c.a.r.b. fuel standard ... you see, their gas guzzlers now, on a gallon of fuel (containing only one tenth of a gallon of "gas") go 12 miles ... on a tenth of a gallon of "gas". Because the grain alcohol doesn't count for c.a.r.b. computations. Get it? GM lobby guys: ya gotta give 'em credit ... in a sick sort of way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Clean @ Jun 23 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]275778[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 23 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]275823[/snapback]</div>

Yes, not sure where they lost their way. We were a Chevy family, and would be except the company just seemed to give up on buiding and supporting any sort of quality. Seems like it happened in the late 80's to me. The 70's weren't so bad, we had a steel-sleeved Vega that was great for its day.

I can't figure out why someone doesn't build a hybrid truck that uses the electric motor/generator on the front wheels, since that's where the braking force is needed, and use the gasoline engine for the rear wheels. That way, could still have 4wd when it's needed, and use it as a hybrid the rest of the time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SCDrJ @ Jun 23 2006, 02:08 PM) [snapback]275993[/snapback]</div>

If that truly is the "only question" then the answer is - don't worry about it. Electricity does not have to come from fossil fuels. Gasoline still has to come from oil and lots of electricity.

 

If GM beats Toyota to market with one of these, or if it is generally superior to Toyota's system, I will buy it. Hell, I'll even buy it from malorn.

Toyota is rumored to have a Plug-In Prius by 2009, though, so we'll see who gets there first.

Nate