Featured Anti-Plugin War is Heating up Fast

if dealers around here drop their pants to the 5k discounts i'm reading about, i'll be hard pressed to resist.

 

It's the same here on Long Island with the Bolt Bisco.
CA dealers are offering a real/legit $3K off MSRP without even asking.... here in downstate NY it's strictly MSRP, no discounts whatsoever on the Bolt (so far).

 

i'll probably watch to see who blinks first, chevy or toyota.

 

Tesla companyRimac companyThey are already hereCombustion engine just can't compete against BEV. Once try BEV and all benefits they have against gas carsAt least in my life this was last year i owned 100% 12 cylinder fosil fuel propelled car

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

agreed, but most people won't try them. between the plug in wars and geopolitics, we're still quite aways from increasing significant ev sales.

 

To me 50% yoy growth is a significant increase. It looks like plug-in market in US and china can do that in 2017-2020. Its from a small base, but US and china are the 2 biggest car markets. Growth seems slower in Japan, Europe, and ROW, and that is likely to continue.

 

I have to disagree. Perhaps at some point in the future when the infrastructure is in a BEV will be the way to go. Right now, unless you live in the right area, the charging systems are seriously inadequate. Spending an hour every three hours to recharge will not prove to be popular. In addition, the cost of electricity vs gasoline needs to be taken onto account. There are places right now where it is cheaper to buy gas than kwh's. The popularity of the Prime is a good example to use. . Even with gas prices almost historically low, it is still selling. BEV's are at least one generation away, depending on better battery technology.

 

i think bev growth will hit a ceiling once hybrid drivers stop switching and tax credits peter out. they will need higher gas prices and hopefully new incentives along with with inevitable tech improvements to continue effective growth.

 

It is the way to go, for some.
It isn't a "on/off" proposition, it is a "how big is the market today".
The size of that market has, and will continue to grow due to a number of factors:
A) As more options from auto makers enter the market.
B) As range increases.
C) As prices come down.
D) As infrastructure continues to improve.

Each and every one of these factors increase the market in and of themselves. However, all of these factors are happening at one time.

 

It take much longer in P100D with highway speed to burn electrons....and by that time you will appreciate short stop...Tesla chargers are just fine the way they are and if sometime i need slow charger to use i will plan ahead and take well deserved rest....I have used my brother Tesla in Europe and travel almost the same amount of time on a trip 1150 KMAnd once i was at my house in Croatia i just use Solar power...I was hesitant at beginning...now i will take any time BEV with 250+ miles on long tripsOnly way BEV is inadequate is going to far away from network

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

E) As people actually try driving one.

 

I disagree.

• There are qualities beyond reducing gasoline use to BEVs. People are buying while it can cost more to use electricity.
• We've already seen cost reductions in the batteries. It has been better than predicted, and hasn't hit the limit yet.
• Many plug in buyers didn't switch from a hybrid.

BEVs themselves are limited by charging access, and car range. Back when the longest range, affordable one was the 85 mile Leaf, 40% of US households could make use of one. That number just increases with each range improvement and price drop. Charging availability outside of home is more about boosting buyer confidence than actual need at this point.

 

a) those qualities are invisible to most gasser drivers

b) i said that

c) no evidence

 

Acceleration and power are not.

I don't think we need to continue incentives indefinitely and/or high gas prices for them. It will help, but not needed.

Where's the evidence that plug in buyers are all ditching a hybrid for it? A strong case can be made with the Prime and Energis, but it would only be an assumption that those buying the PHEV would even consider the hybrid if it was the only option. The counter argument is the lost sales of ICE only models to Tesla. There is also the sales evidence to show that plug in sales are not as tied to gas prices as hybrid sales are.

 

Besides incentives, CA mandates drive sales.

 

Lets see how the next few years shake out. Some are predicting that the Tesla car production volume will not materialize as Elon would wish. Some are predicting that the price of a Model 3 will really be more like $60k once the more desirable add-ons are configured. How many reservations will be unfilled due to price. How many reservations were speculators. And all today's high volume car manufacturers will have competitive cars out for sale once the initial orders for the Model 3 are satisfied so competition will ensue and we'll be able to tell from resale prices what the value of the initial EVs will become. The regulatory climate is sadly changing, the incentives are in doubt.

 

1) not if they don't try one.

2) agreed, we don't need them forever.

3) we're both guessing.

 

i'm not chuffed. but i do wonder about sales once all the greenies and hov sticker people are satisfied.

 

But all of Tesla's investment in production is predicated on those early adopters leading into still more keeping the factory producing after all the current depositors are satisfied. Not saying it will happen, just that it could and the current regulatory climate doesn't help.