Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

To that end, tesla has a 'bounty' program. You successfully hack their security system & not only do you jack your ego way up, you get a nice lump sum of cash. Last year, a chinese security company hit pay-dirt . . . and that ultimately helped tesla shore-up its security, via over the air software patches.
Researchers hack Tesla Model S with remote attack | PCWorld
Opening a car's sunroof & door locks isn't really that much of a prize. Hackers in other countries trying to drop Air Force One - thousands & thousands of feet ... now that really becomes an issue.
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There are also legal issues re speedometers and odometers that don't apply to a GPS.

 

That's simply because laws are so outdated in many instances. You may still have on the book rules about women's dress attire & people needing to carry Red Lanterns as automobiles are traveling down the street so as to not scare horses. Meanwhile - you slipped a set of big tires & wheels on your vehicle & all bets are off. Oh the irony.
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Sort of like the folks that think our legal framework can properly manage, evaluate, test and govern automous cars being on the road in 5 years when the legal framework on driver assist is basically non existent and testing is inadequate.

We are at the mercy of corporations doing the right thing

Here is how well semi autonomy works
Watch Tesla Model S crash into construction barrier [Video] - LeftLaneNews

 

For one thing - the article states that it is "suggested" that it was autopilot. No followup. Additionally & by example, you can't blame you're old-fashioned cruise control - if you crash into the car in front of you because you were not paying attention. Whether Tesla driver assist, or old-fashioned cruise control, in both instances you can't remove driver responsibility . . . . No matter how much modern society wants to blame manufacturers or the other guy for their own failures. Recently a Tesla smashed & killed driver & passenger ... speeding & nearly 3X the legal drinking limit & they wanted to blame autopilot. Similarly, that next 747 flight you take? It has autopilot. at some point that pilot better be able to take over because it's not foolproof. It's the same kind of lack of responsibility that allows people to come into court with a murder rap and the first thing out of their mouth, "poor little Johnny had a bad upbringing.... you have to excuse him." The victim should'a been more sensitive .... blah blah blah ...
Dear society How's that working for you ...

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Wow this thread is digressing fast!

 

If it was Autopilot with Smart Cruise Control on, the car should have started to brake when detecting something on its lane. Is it possible in a Tesla to have Autopilot on without Smart Cruise Control? In my Ioniq EV it is possible to have the LKAS on without the Smart Cruise Control.

I just encountered two similar cases of the lane blocked and a Tesla crashed; see below. One driver died. Why does the Smart Cruise Control not respond, and why not the emergency stop system? Why do both systems fail in such (similar) cases?

 

Apples to oranges differences. Right now though? Depends. Over the past 2 months, neither (autopilot) AP1 or AP2 have been fully operational, as both are in the process of major (& incremental) upgrades. When it began, NO availability at all, except sub 50mph speeds only - even TACC (traffic aware cruise control) would stop running .... & when running - only on some major freeways. Next rev, more freeways, next rev, SOME regular roads, but only roads with sufficient line/lane markings - & sub 35mph only .... next rev, less sub 35mph lane markings necessary ... and so on. Typically, the system won't allow activation AT ALL - once the new rev's are downloaded .... taking on average - about 15 miles of driving 1st, before partial re-activation returns (a type of system calibration) . The dash notifies driver (via dinging tones & idiot light) that 'safety features are temporarily unavailable' .
Knowing how limited the system is, & has been, while it upgrades - pretty much says it all. With only low speed and partial availability, AP was obviously not running at the time of the accident.
Either DOT or tesla or both, are requiring literally millions of miles to be logged before the entire & new system will be allowed to run full out, 100% of the time.
In the meantime, there's quite a bit of drama on the Tesla boards, as owners were led to believe that AP2 would be fully operational once those newly equipped vehicles became available around October 2016. Instead, even the AP1 equipped systems went crippled. Everyone whined & cried when (for example) or if space shuttle Challenger couldn't be launched on time, & so they rushed. The resulting disaster was likely - but ignored. Yet still we seem willing to repeat history - being entitled to have life risk free ... & instantly.
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You have a future writing software licensing agreements.

Bob Wilson

 

bringing the thread back on topic, one of our US members over on ioniqforums test drove a bluedrive model,

US Test Drive and EV Order - Hyundai Ioniq Forum

pluses and minuses to both his current prius and the Ioniq he test drove, he has also driven the Niro

 

Thank you for sharing. Note that the Prius compared was the Prius c, not the hatchback.

 

Uh, @Bluecar1 was not the author who posted the original copied from another forum. I could not find a similar username here so thought 'correcting the Internet' would not be useful. A dialogue with the author, OK, but I am not interested in doing on the other board what @Bluecar1 does here.

The best way to fail the Ioniq is to focus on selling just to Prius people. What everyone needs are conquest sales of gassers, 95% of the new car buyers. Selling just to 2% of the new car market won't sustain sane manufacturing volumes. Casting stones between the Prius and Ioniq just entertains the hybrid skeptics.

Now there were some clues in the piece suggesting the original author suffers from 'selective audio acuity.' Dismissing the noise concerns of his wife and daughter was one such signal. Worse, I have no Prius c experience to understand the original author's requirements.

Yet in spite of the test drive, no Ioniq was sold. It is hard to compete without product.

Bob Wilson

 

'pure silence in the parking lot, unlike the noise the prius makes'. sorry mate, but next year, you won't have that silence. you can call your congresswoman and complain though.

he didn't seem too happy that his wife and daughter were dissing his dream car, maybe they had beehive hairdo's.

he even gives a shoutout to bluecar1.

the trunk was perfect, whereas his corolla trunk was way too big.

 

Exactly, that's also what you can see that is happening. On the Ioniq forum, and also in reviews, from time to time the remark is made that 'fortunately' the Ioniq 'just looks like a conventional car' (and sometimes even that it 'is not so ugly as the Prius is'). For me personally that was not an issue, but for some group of buyers this is important. As Bob is also pointing out, I think the ambition should be to get more people out of their non-hybrid cars and then it does not matter whether they will go for a Prius or an Ioniq. It is good that now there are more options on the hybrid market for different tastes, and there is more serious competition on efficiency.

 

His complain wasn't about the Corolla's volume, but the length. Sedans now have long sloping rear windows. This results in a short trunk lid, and almost having to climb into the trunk to reach stuff all the way by the seat backs. Loading and unloading is simply not as convenient as, say an old Crown Vic. It's why people were disappointed when the unveiled Model 3 was a sedan.

 

fill the back of the corolla trunk with bubble wrap, than you'll have a 'perfect' size trunk.

 

I only copied it over here as it was the first time I had seen a normal user (not a journalist) who currently has a prius (all be it a prius C) make some direct comparisons between the two cars after a test drive, as I said plus's and minus's to both cars

I thought the information may have been useful over here as it is discussing the plus and minus points of both cars

I agree trying to sell purely to existing prius owners only would not be good as many Toyota drivers are brand loyal, but what I am seeing is a lot of the new Ioniq owners are people who hadn't considered a hybrid before, but also a fair number of them are diesel drivers converting to hybrid (either tax / P11D incentives or looking for something quieter / more economical)

presently there is plenty of market share for both Toyota and Hyundai not to get into a fight over new customers, the interesting thing will be when more companies like VAG etc join the market for hybrids

 

Actually many of the Prius "early adopters" already have their Tesla. The rest of us are a mix of some brand loyal but also skilled in understanding our requirements and what is offered. If the Ioniq is aggressively sold to gasser (and maybe soon to be former TDI owners) GOOD!

Now it is unfair to think my requirements fit yours. I'm the 67 year old youngster who married a cougar 2017-1977, 40 years ago. We only have two small dogs and I'm about to go fixed income. But if someone has a growing family, it makes sense to get a car or van with more seats and space. Requirements analysis is a good thing.

IMHO, people needing more space would be more likely to have a Prius v, RAV3, or a Highlander. These are the large volume, Toyota hybrids. But two of them are high clearance for rough road operation so maybe the Niro would be a better fit. It is always good to have choices and it might be the Ioniq is closer to the Honda Accord or Camry Hybrid in terms of space and volume.

Let me suggest starting with: Fuel Economy and compare:

• 2017 Hyundai Ioniq
• 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid
• 2017 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2017 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

These are real competition where the Ioniq offers a significant price-performance advantage. Just I want to remind you that older folks also like these new fangled, safety features that allow us to drive around and not hit or be hit by others. We got this far in life and don't want to lose it for trivial reasons.

Bob Wilson

ps. If you really want to do a USA market survey, hit the "Download Data". You can then sort the vehicles in the same class and prioritize where Hyundai needs to sell. Go after the 95% market buyers and Hyundai will do well. Go after the <5% market and it will be a rough row to hoe.

 

B. Wilson - Your analysis and comments are always on target .... and I for one, appreciate your opinions.
Keep them coming.

 

The Ioniq is closer in size to the Prius. Hybrid shoppers will cross shop it with the mid-size sedans, but only because the hybrid selection is limited. There are a lot of Corolla, Civic, and Elantra shoppers out there though. With more traditional styling, I'd say these are the people the Ioniq targets.