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It sat long enough for grass to grow

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Pinback, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    G'day Folks,

    A local non profit of which I am a member had a 2006 Prius donated to the organization by a member who passed away. This is a small organization and the president of the organization has had the car sitting in their drive way while all the other aspects of the estate were addressed. And now it has been 11 months since it was driven to the drive way of resting and it is now unresponsive. I am told the odometer reading "is pretty low." So I would like to help them get this running so the organization can get some $$$ and someone can have a nice serviceable car.

    I figure that the 12V battery will probably need to be replaced but may be able to be recharged and used for a while to get it running and testing all the other systems as well as smog checked. I gave the organization's president a volt meter (DVM) and some basic guidance as to how to open the door with the mechanical key, open the hood and prop it up and measure the voltage in the fuse box. I am waiting to hear what the results are.

    I have a battery charger with 10/2/50 amp settings. I am expecting that the voltage on the battery will be pretty low, probably well below 10V. If that is the case do you think it would be possible to recharge the 12V aux battery using the 2 amp setting over night?

    If the 12V battery can get up to voltage, say 11 volts or higher, even with diminished capacity, will I be able to open the aft transom hatch after resetting the door and window circuits? (being a "size gifted individual" I am not looking forward to crawling into cargo hold to use the manual opener. :) )

    If the 12v battery is a goner, can I attach a generic 12v car battery to run the on board computers to access the OBD port and CAN bus for diagnostics. I have a near new group 25 battery from my Toy ENE (Toyota Ever Nimble Echo) that could be borrowed for diagnostic work on the Prius. And I have a variety of adapter clamps and battery cables.

    Then a big scary question... What impact will this long sit have had on the HV traction battery bank?
    And how much can we tell about the state of the traction battery without getting on the road?

    I am also very concerned about the gas that is in the tank. With a more traditional tank I would open up the tank and use my hand dandy peristaltic pump to suck out the old fuel and suck up as much goo as possible. But this is a gen 2 Prius and don't all those have the inflate-o-tank? Any suggestions on dealing with the fuel situation would be appreciated too. A can of Seafoam(tm) maybe?

    What other issues should we be checking? Rodent/spider invasions... I suppose.

    The car is in Southern California so it has not seen freezing temps or extreme heat. In the last couple of months it did get rained on a fair bit.

    Pinback
     
  2. Melchior

    Melchior Junior Member

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    Yes I think if you leave the current (hah) 12v in and charge it on 2 amps overnight, there ought to be enough juice in there to make 'something' happen.

    No reason a normal 12v car battery cannot be used in the Prius to do some testing, fault finding etc. If everything turns out to be OK and the car will be in regular use from then on, put a brand new 12v Prius battery on your shopping list so it doesn't have to be a concern.

    I don't know about opening the trunk, but see no reason why, if the system has 11-ish volts, that it wouldn't open.

    I'd imagine the HV will be fine after 11 months idle. If it was 5 years, then I'd be concerned. It's one of those things where you just don't know until you try.

    As for the gas in the tank, it will be OK after 11 months. Once the car is up and running, fill it right up and drive it lots.

    The things we're discussing here are all easy to try out, so give them a go and keep us posted :)
     
  3. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    Well I am particularly happy to hear that the Traction batteries are fairly shelf stable.

    The petrol situation concerns me because of experiences I have had with dealing with small boats that were not used for extended periods (6-12 months) both in and out of the water tended to form lots of gunk in the tanks that would wind up clogging the carburetor jets and even some of the fuel lines. And I know that this vehicle did not have any fuel stabilizers added to it when it was parked.
    Given the approximate date of early March when the car was parked it probably had Ca winter blend (including 10%ethanol) in it. I wonder how different the NL gas and Ca RFG3-W are in terms of shelf stability?
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Used hybrid battery sitting might be more detrimental than new hybrid battery sitting: but I'm really just speculating. For a data point:

    Our "new" 2010 Prius was built in August 2009, and we purchased it in November 2010. It was at the back of a holding shed, penned in by other vehicles, all dusty. A dead bird lay beside it. The 12 volt battery was another "dead bird", completely toast: they acknowledged it and replaced it (finally, after a few surreptitious jump starts). The hybrid battery however, has been champion, to date.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    toyota says not to use gas over 6 months old. so it may be a crapshoot unless you drain the tank and flush the system. it's probably too late for the gas in the fuel injectors and etc., that's where the gumming takes place.
    maybe it's just as easy to go for it and hope for the best.
     
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  6. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    When I get the 12 volt system up and have instruments, sensors, weapons and transporters back on line I can see how much gas it thinks it has. If it is really low on gas, say 1 or 2 blips, maybe "dilution is the solution to the (old gas) pollution" with some fresh gas?

    What about say 8-16 oz of Seafoam? For Inboard/outboard boats that has helped me cleanup mildly to moderately gunky systems on boats and other seasonally used equipment.

    I am still learning about this um, rather interesting, Gen2 tank system. So, one of the biggest breakdown points for fuel in a traditional tank is at the surface where fuel meets the atmosphere since there is more state changing going on from liquid to vapor and back at that boundary layer. I am told by a petroleum engineer that this is a very common point for moisture absorption into the fuel too. So I would like to speculate that MAYBE the bladder tank design in the Gen2 Prius will cut down on this sort of reaction?

    What do y'all think of that wishful thinking?

    Also if I did decide to drain the tank how would I go about that? I have not read all of the service manual yet, maybe there is a procedure for that in there?
     
  7. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    G'day Bisco,
    So when you mention the gumming takes place in the injectors and lines is that where it happens or where it piles up once it has happened?
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I think it is really hard to siphon gas from any modern car. All things considered, I'd just drive it, and top up asap.
     
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  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    If you have a Toyota factory service manual, there should be a tank draining procedure. I have read a few stories of owners who have added diesel to the tank (inadvertently) and service center have drained the tank of the diesel as part of the remediation.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't really know. when my lawn mower gums up, it's always the tiny carb ports.
     
  11. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    Wait, you have a hybrid lawn mower too? Cool...

    Ok what I wonder then is does it form on the surface of the fuel in the tank and then flow down stream to the port which is the narrowest point in the path?
     
  12. Melchior

    Melchior Junior Member

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    Don't bother with Seafoam. The thing hasn't been sat for 5+ years, I predict it will be fine. The fuel system is sealed (as are all 'modern' fuel injected cars) so there is not really any worries about the fuel mixing with air and getting gummed up.

    Get it to a gas station, fill her up, check tyre pressures, oil and coolant levels and go on a long (at least an hour) drive. This will provide the following benefits:
    - everything which should, will get up to full operating temperature
    - any dodgy gas in the lines will be well flushed and burnt
    - 12v and HV batteries will get a good charge cycle
    - You will get a feel for the car and have a good amount of time and miles to listen/feel/see/smell any oddness

    While you're on this drive, exercise the car thoroughly. Use plenty of full throttle, high engine and road speeds, work the brakes hard (take it to a quiet road and do a few 0-60-0 runs). Don't be afraid of doing this, if the car is OK, it will be good for it. If there is an issue with it, doing this will highlight it. Better to do that now rather than after you have donated it (if I understand your intentions correctly).

    tl'dr : check all levels and tyre pressures. Fill with fuel, take on Italian Tuneup.
     
  13. Melchior

    Melchior Junior Member

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    I forgot to ask - how many miles on this starship and is there any service history with it? It doesn't really matter, I'm just curious.

    Also - when you fill the tank, do not be tempted to brim it. Just stop when the pump clicks off. Trying to brim a bladder tank car (which all US spec Gen 2's are) can cause some pretty big problems. (Trivia: I do not have this problem as Euro spec Gen 2's don't have a bladder, just a normal tank. This is because of different emission laws between the USA (specifically California, IIRC) and everywhere else)
     
  14. Pinback

    Pinback Member

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    Yeah, I read about the tank fill issue right before I bought my 2009 Gen 2. But, it bears repeating because I may not be the one adding gas and I'll need to remember to educate them about that issue. The car under discussion is a 2006 and it is ~55 miles from my home - through downtown LA traffic. I am REALLY hoping that a bit of air to the tires, a charge to the 12v battery through the jump point will get it up enough to look at other diagnostics. I'll take a spare 12V (non Prius) car battery with adapters and some fob batteries along too.

    Once I am on site I might get more details about it's maintenance history and miles/light years. I don't want to take responsibility for getting all the paper work done and finding a buyer, but if I don't it might sit or another age. If it were a few months ago I would have bought it. I offered to do that but it was always a chore for them so they never got around to having me check, it out. I needed a new commute car at the time and bought The Darkstar. (2009 Prius)

    I am wondering what else I will need to address mechanically or electrically?

    Pinback
     
  15. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Bring a fresh battery.
    You should be able to return it if not needed.

    Spend $15 and buy a Bluetooth OBDII reader from Amazon to use with and android phone.
    Download the Torque app.
    These will give you actual usable data so you can see what is wrong.

    Bring a can on starter fluid.
    Voltmeter.
    Jumper cables.
    Ratchet with 10,12,14mm sockets plus an extension. Also a 10mm deeper socket.
    Regular screwdriver.
    Panel clip removal tool might be nice but not necessary.

    Don't fret too much about the gas for now.

    Of you have the VIN now you can look up all the Dealer maintenance info ahead of time for free.

    I wouldn't fret too much about the old gas for now.

    Call me for any other tips. Happy to help.
     
  16. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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