[POLL] Excessive Oil Usage

Shock absorber was replaced.
Air bag recall
Engine is burning oil at 87,200 miles. I am documenting this now with the dealer. I am calling Toyota tomorrow. The dealer lied to me about checking the oil. This was checked and changed at Midas. I had brakes and tires replaced. I had engine throttle cleaning. I had air conditioner service in the Summer.


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I finally heard back .

Below are the questions I asked along with the responses. Some pertain to the 98 4Runner we have with 258 k miles on it (It does not consume ANY oil), but had a high NOx reading at the last smog check. I ended up changing out the Catalytic Converter. Including this for everyone's benefit as y'all probably have more cars than just the Prius and it might apply, and provides some insight.

I plan on responding with some questions over the weekend. If anyone has any questions you would like to ask, let me know and I will include them in my response.

Here 's my questions with the response below each one. Happy reading!!

Since I sent the original inquiry, I have changed the oil in both the 4Runner and Prius. Both oil changes received the MOA. The 4Runner also had the EPR treatment prior to the oil change. When I drive the 4Runner (the wife's usual car), I notice a lower rpm and smoother idle and when the oil came out, it was definitely darker in appearance, so it tells me that the treatment removed some deposits.

1) the 4Runner has 258k miles on it and we are very happy with it and want it to last many more years. Are there other products that I should consider to extend its life?

--> Short answer, we have tons of products to help prolong the life of the vehicle. Since we specialize in preventative maintenance, every fluid should be addressed. Long answer, I would have to know more about your maintenance history before I could really recommend anything specific. Fuel and oil systems can always be addressed. Brake and coolant are pretty safe to do regardless of mileage. Trans you need to be super careful with. I would need to know more.Power Steering I would also be cautious with. Front Diff, Transfer Case, Rear Diff are all safe to do.

2) Last year we had an issue with the car passing CA smog check due to elevated NOx levels. I got the catalytic converter changed out and it passed. Between now and next year when it is due, I was performing the EPR and MOA treatments to help improve and keep it passing smog. Am I on the right path with your products, or is there something else or another product to consider?

--> You are doing great addressing the oil side. That will cut down on oil going through the engine, and hurting your smog scores. The other system you should address is the fuel system. EPR does a great job cleaning the oil side of the engine, but it doesn't get the fuel side. The fuel side also causes carbon build up, that will have a huge impact on smog scores. Every time you turn your car on and off you are building carbon in the air and fuel system. I don't want you to think you are special here, every car does it. It is called a heat soak. When you turn your car off, the engine is in various stages of combustion. One of those stages is an injector spraying fuel into the air intake, that doesn't get burnt up because the engine is off. That fuel bakes onto the metal of the engine. That is how we get gums and varnishes, and carbon builds on it. Also, while we are running our engine, fuel is being combusted in the cylinder itself. After it is burnt, the left over residue is carbon. Your car is designed to push all that out with the exhaust. It never gets it all, and the dirtier it gets, the carbon builds exponentially. Part of that carbon from the burnt up fuel will coat the 02 sensors down street, and clog up the CAT. All this leads to not passing smog, as you have already experienced.

3) You said to add EPR every oil change out to keep the engine clean. If I am adding MOA every oil change, shouldn't this help ensure parts are lubricated, the oil is basic and stabilized and should keep deposits from forming and collecting?

--> We do recommend using EPR every oil change. I use it on every oil change for my vehicles, but a lot of that has to do with the engines that I have. On the 4Runner, you could probably get away with doing it every other, or every third time. Older engines, once cleaned, don't have the consumption issues that the newer ones do. A lot of it depends on how you drive. If you are stuck in traffic a lot, that is a lot of idle time on the engine. The odometer may say 5K miles on the oil change, but idle time also breaks down the engine oil. If average speed is 30 MPH, every half hour of idling is 15 miles unaccounted for. An example, it took me 5 hours to go from Truckee to Vacaville. It should have taken me 2.5. The miles didn't adjust for the extra time on my odometer, but my engine was running twice as long. That is an extra 170+/- miles that won't show up. So, if you are really good about your oil changes, and you don't have a ton of idle time. You should be fine using EPR every other time or so.

The PRIUS has consumption issues. Toyota knows about it. There are lawsuits out there about it. The severity varies from year to year. I would us EPR every time. It has less to do with the oil, and more to do with the design flaw in new motors. The new engines changed from stronger more durable piston rings, to lighter weaker rings. Along with high compression in the cylinders, it is forcing more fuel past the rings into the oil, and allowing more oil to enter the cylinder to build up in the fuel system. Fuel in the oil is bad because it breaks down the oil. That robs the engine of its oil protection, and leads to more build up that needs to be cleaned.

4) I have used Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner in both the Prius and the 4Runner for years. I am buying Top Tier gas anymore as in the Prius I began to see oil consumption and carbon buildup in the egr system. Should I mix the Chevron and 44K treatments or just do the once a year 44K? I have one bottle of Techron left, so my plan was to use it at the 6 month mark.

--> A few bits of info that might help clear some stuff up. What ever oil your vehicle calls for, use that. What ever octane ( 87, 91 ) you vehicle calls for, use that.Top Tier fuel is better that regular, use that. Regular fuel allows so much carbon buildup over a set amount of time. Top Tier fuel allows the same amount of buildup, but over a longer period of time. This is according to the Top Tier website. The idea that Top Tier fuel will clean your engine is false. But if your engine is clean, it will keep it cleaner longer. It is worth the dollar or two every time you fill up. We developed and own the paten to the best fuel cleaner on the market, 44K, part # 208. Long story short, Chevron bottles it for us, and they get to use a knock off, which is their Techron. I'm not trying to knock them. Techron is a really good product. I've recommended it to a couple people to use in a pinch, when the couldn't get some 44K. Use up what you got. I would recommend doing a full fuel system cleaning every year, or every 15K miles. Which means you are using 44K once a year as part as that service. If you want to throw in some Techron on the 6 month mark, I'm sure it will help. If you want to do that until you use up your standing stock, I'm sure it will help. Make sure you throw it in on a full tank of gas to get the most cleaning out of it.

5)What is a full fuel service? Can you describe what is entailed?

--> Our fuel system cleaning attacks both problems. We but a cleaner in the fuel tank, using prolonged exposure to safely dissolve the build up and send it out the exhaust. And an air intake cleaner attack directly the build up in the intake and ports, also safely dissolving the build up and sending it out the exhaust. A lot of safety involved with this service. We recommend doing a full fuel service once a year, or every 15K miles. I would at least but 44K, part # 208, through the fuel system. You just pour it into the fuel tank, on a full tank of gas, and it cleans while you drive.The air intake should also be cleaned, that would be a fuel induction system cleaning, part # 206. This cleans the air intake side, specifically the intake, intake ports, and the throttle plate. Using both of these products will clean the entire fuel system, including 02 sensors down stream and the CAT.

 

I started burning oil at 100k on 2010 model. Up until that time absolutely no oil consumption; it as like someone flipped a switch. Watched closely and determined I was burning a quart every 2,500-3,000 miles (more in hot weather). I sold the vehicle with 118,000. Great vehicle, but was very disappointed with this problem. I've found many 2010 Prius owners burning oil at 100k on internet posts.

 

Sounds like something failed, suddenly. Drives home to not get complacent, check the dipstick regularly.

 

Our 2005 with 175,000 just got totaled, so I'm looking at buying a used 3rd gen. I couldn't help but check out this oil consumption thread as I have had consumption issues out of my 05. My sister has an 06 with 170,000 with high consumption issues as well(1-2 quarts per 1000 miles). Our Prius' both started consuming at 100000. I read about changing out the pcv valve, so I figured for $10 worth a try. Dropped consumption on both Prius down to anywhere from 1/2 to 1 quart per 5000 miles. Not sure how the gen 3 is, but for $10 and 30 minutes of my time it was WELL worth it. Figured I'd drop that advice to all of you here.

 

She was burning 1-2 qts every 1k

Now using 0.5-1 qt every 5k?

That is a HUGE improvement. I wouldn't even bother topping off really, just change the oil every 5k and keep an eye on it between changes.

 

I noticed the problem at around 100K also, currently at 156K. I go 14000-15000 miles between oil changes and I add 2-3 quarts in between. I brought the car at 89000 miles and changed the oil the first time at 8500 miles. I drive 1200 miles a week for a living, so oil burning is easy to notice.

 

Started oil consumption tests. The engine is consuming 3.25 quarts of oil over 4500 miles. I am now having the dealer take apart the engine to find the problem. I have the car under warranty. It has 93,000 miles on it now.


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wow, please keep us posted! did you ever call toyota?

 

My 2011 has 185K and I just got it....Checked dipstick 1300 miles after changing oil and was 1/2 quart low...Absolutely HYSTERICAL that people think it's a big deal....So let me get this straight, we can basically drive to 275,000 miles on the original engine/trans/battery/suspension/brakes but it's unbearable to have to monitor your oil level by checking the dipstick once a month?

I actually enjoy it...Gives me something to do. For my next change I am switching to Mobil One 0W20 Advanced Fuel Economy ($22 Walmart) w/ Toyota brand oil filter($5 Amazon)...I am going to try my luck with some random potions as an experiment. For my 1st oil change I'll be using Bar's Valve Seal Oil Consumption Repair ($10 on Amazon). I'll drive around 1500 miles and check the dipstick...It's entertaining and gives me something to do....As long as you keep oil in between the lines nothing is going to explode.

 

Instead of mixing stuff up, why not just use Mobil 1 0W-20 High Mileage Oil? You are going to negate the mileage effects of the Mobile 1 by adding the approximately straight 50 weight oil additive. Bar's Valve Seal Oil Consumption Repair has a Kinematic rating of 155 mm2/sec at 40C which is equivalent to about 50 weight oil. I wouldn't dump 50 weight oil in that little Prius engine.

https://barsleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/VS-1-SDS1.pdf

Mobil 1 0W-20 Viscosity is 8.4 mm2/s at 40C!
Request Rejected

Mobil 1 5W-20 High Mileage is 8.6 mm2/s at 40C!

And you want to mix 155 mm2/sec viscosity goop in that?

 

Regularly means EVERY fillup. That way it never gets missed. I ALWAYS check the oil and the coolant levels whenever I fill up and also track the mileage.

 

Yes, I did. I have a case number. The dealer is still trying to charge me to take apart the engine.


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The dealer wants to charge me $2600 just to take the engine apart. I have an extended warranty which they didn't even call in to register a complaint. I will have to either upgrade to a newer vehicle or find another dealer that will honor my warranty. The dealer said they don't know what is wrong with the engine, or it could be attributed to normal wear and tear. I am not paying it. I have a 100,000 mile extended warranty.


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My experience, and this has been totally anecdotal, is that "extended warranties" are virtually worthless. Rather than being a warranty, what is typically sold is an insurance policy with exclusions. Those exclusions usually exclude, "wear and tear" and nearly every component of value. It's a sad situation.

 

Yep, and by definition.

Is it good insurance?
It is not. Consumer Report's writes about this every year.