Car & Driver Says Prime Ugly, Too Slow

You missed the context - the context was cost of operation, not cost of ownership.

 

I forgot to add,
The cheapest commuter car I can think of is a used Nissan LEAF fueled by DIY home PV

 

I gave the writer the benefit of the doubt since it makes no sense to exclude some of the costs of ownership.

Regardless, costs per mile/year/lifetime are clear and concise. No 'efficiency' to muddle the conversation. Just cheaper or not.

 

If TCO is all you care about, then a 10-15 year old $2,000 daily beater is your best bet.

Obviously that's not either the stated goal by the poster or the context of a forum about a brand new 2017 vehicle.

 

Then it is not all about cost, either.
Which is what I wrote earlier. Your participation has been worthless this morning. Your day off ?

 

You either miss or fail to acknowledge the point. Yes the Prime is more efficient than the Volt when comparing gas and electric individually. But what really matters in the real world is the overall efficiency. I read somewhere (don't know if it is really accurate) that the average commute for a US driver is 40 miles. That is very close to what mine is. Nine out of ten days I'm driving between 25 and 75 miles. So for me, and a large number of other drivers, the Volt is going to be much more efficient overall. You can call that cherry picking if you want, but I call it reality. I do take occasional long trips which is why I'm not considering full EV at this moment, but those wouldn't sway the overall efficiency numbers to the Prime for MY use.

I come here just trying to learn about the Prime. I haven't been able to drive one yet, but will get the opportunity at some point. Once I do I will likely purchase either the Prime or Volt. I am currently leaning towards the Volt because it seems the best fit for me (and I loved it when I did a couple of test drives), but I'm withholding final judgement until I can drive the Prime. Of course I would expect a bias towards the Prime on this forum, but this forum really reminds me of IPhone forums where the competition is derided by the iSheep no matter how good a competitor’s product may be.

 

The rule-of-thumb is that 2/3 of all vehicle miles traveled are on round-trips of under 40 miles.

Efficient how? In terms of gasoline usage on those trips only. The Volt uses more electricity to go the same distance as the Prime, and by a pretty large margin - at least 25%.

 

When a traditional car mag tests and publishes 0-60 times, I'm just chafing. They don't get it.

You can actually sense a dodo in the making. It's kind of like when you walk into your bank to get some cash at the machines. Look inside: the tellers sitting at their windows, counted the ceiling tiles. A sunset industry.

 

The Volt is never more efficient than the Prime. What metric are you talking about ?

 

You mention the political and macroeconomic reasons a person would choose to use electricity over oil. There is also environmental reasons. Many electric markets allow the user to select the use of cleaner sources, like wind. Many also allow home owners to install solar and make their own for possibly lower cost than getting kWs off the grid.

Pull up to a gas station, and you have no idea how much of the gasoline came from conventional cruder, or dirtier tar sands or shale oil. The best a person can do in trying to clean up the fuel their car uses, is to make their own ethanol. Then neither Toyota and GM are going to warranty the engines in these cars if a person adds more ethanol than what is already in the store bought gas.

The prices are regional, and individual distance is a factor. The Volt is cheaper to fuel for my commute than a Prime.

The 40 mile EV range target was chosen for the Volt because that was the average commute distance in the US. Charging at work is not a given.

In regards to long trips, we have taken our 2005 Prius on them, and with two large dogs, it gets tight. In terms of total space, the Prime and Volt aren't much of an improvement over the old gen2. With the majority of households, that can afford either car new, having more than one car, they will likely opt for the less efficient, but bigger vehicle for such trips. For individuals going on vacation; plane, train, or bus could end up being more efficient per person.

How many drove between the Prime's and Volt's EV ranges?

If you still have your study, it should be easier to upload it, than have everyone redo your work.

And Volts even cheaper. Qualify for all the GM, dealer, and third party incentives, a base Volt can be had for lower than a base Prime. Before the federal and state incentives.

Cost per commute.

 

Yes, and it is a fairly useless number for a couple of reasons:

1. Very, very few people are average. YMMV
2. The Volt loses to the Prime on both sides: from less than 25 miles on electric only for both and more than 85ish when considering petroleum. E.g., I drive local most days of the week less than 25 miles a trip, and 90 miles 2-3 times a week. My average trip may well be ~ 40 miles but the Volt has higher fuel costs per week, uses more petroleum per week, and uses more electricity per week than a Prime. I didn't bother including our long distance driving since the Volt is already the loser. And that is before I take into consideration that I do not like the car, the differences in reliability and customer support, and I hate the company that makes it.

 

Mpge for combined gas/electric is going to be lower for many drivers in the Volt.

 

I just have the presentation. The source is listed as "NHTS 2001".

Volt will lose on that one except in certain special situations (just the right length and much higher gas prices or extremely low electricity rates).

 

I bought the Prime for the efficiency and my ultimate goal is to get solar panels on the house and use that independent source of power for purpulsion. Basically not relying on an infrastructure and be off the grid if need be, but be practical when these infrastructures aren't having any interruptions. I guess a dooms day way of thinking. I am by no means a dooms day prepper, but prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

MPGe is a fairly useless metric, only good for comparing one Ev car to another. Combing MPG and MPGe is a totally useless thing to do because they aren't comparable in really any way at all.

 

I have no more idea than you do about "many" drivers, and clearly you are not "many."

Combing electric and gasoline into an MPGe is nonsensical. It only has meaning for electric to electric, or gasoline to gasoline car comparisons

So, once again,
What metrics do you care about, and how do they play out for you ?

 

EV + PV is great.

If you have sunny yard space and don't mind doing some of the work yourself, PV is dirt cheap.

 

MPGe's entire existence is to give the consumer some ability to compare the relative efficiency of cars for sale. With 100% commitment, the EPA can also use it for diesels, CNGs, etc.

It can also be used as a metric to compare the the vehicle efficiency for a trip regardless of what fuels different vehicles use or if a single one blends two like a PHEV.

 

Oh yeah, because 50 miles per gallon of gasoline says so much when compared to 60 MPGe of electric.

 

So tell me, which is more "efficient," the 50 MPG Prius or the 60 MPGe EV ?