Toyota to double up on hybrids

Another interesting comment in this article (although probably not relevant to us here in the U.S.):

 

Consider this link from the Toyota Georgetown website:

http://www.toyotageorgetown.com/hybrid/ths4.asp

Note that all the technologies being considered, including diesel, advance up through a hybrid technology 'multiplier'. I read your article as further confirmation of this diagram. Whatever powersource can be visualized there will be some hybrid technology to make it even more efficient.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Jun 14 2006, 05:06 PM) [snapback]271372[/snapback]</div>

OK, I'm about to make an nice person of myself, but someone complete this list for me

1. Prius
2. Higlander
3. Camry
4. Lexus 400h
5. Lexus Sedan
6. Estima Minivan (In Japan)
7. ??????

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigbaldcuban @ Jun 15 2006, 02:47 PM) [snapback]271751[/snapback]</div>

Tundra

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigbaldcuban @ Jun 16 2006, 03:47 AM) [snapback]271751[/snapback]</div>

I think the seven models are for Japanese market. They are...

Prius
Estima Hybrid minivan (Japan only)
Alphard Hybrid minivan (Japan only)
Crown mild Hybrid sedan (Japan only)
Kluger Hybrid (Highlander Hybrid)
Harrier Hybrid (Lexsus RX400h)
Lexsus GS 450h

Ken@Japan

 

Do they still not acknowledge that there is already a HUGE demand
for hybrid minivans [estima or sienna or whatever] in the US??
Crikey, almost everyone I tour around the Prius these days says
"I really want something like a minivan". C'mon, Toyota, get with it.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jun 15 2006, 09:32 PM) [snapback]271940[/snapback]</div>

Toyota is probably (justifiably) worried about the reception a hybrid minivan would get. After the HiHy's dismal sales for last year, and the fact that they can only move them by offering incentives that would make GM blush, I'm sure Toyota's carefully weighing the cost/economy scales.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jun 15 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]271943[/snapback]</div>

Two simple ways to ensure better success than with the HiHy:
1. Get real improvement in fuel economy. Most reports I've heard on the HiHy say real-world MPG in the upper 20s- better than non-hybrid SUVs, but hardly spectacular. Notice that the minivans sold in Japan have 4-cylinder ICEs?
2. Price it realistically. Loaded HiHys are selling for over $40K; not too many folks want to pay that much for family transportation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jun 15 2006, 06:34 PM) [snapback]271943[/snapback]</div>

I do not know--to me, "Hybrid SUV" sounds more than a teeny bit oxymoronic...Personally, I would prefer to see a hybrid minivan choice available...I guess that is a predjudice of mine own, but, seems to me that soccer moms and such have more credibility in minivans than suvs--offroad with the team much, mom? And the urban warriors who "need" that SUV to feel "safe," well, my perception that they are more Cadillac buyers--those who pay the 50k or whatever for the Lexus hybrid are a tiny fraction of the market, are they not? I do not know, I'm rambling. I guess all I REALLY mean to say is--I believe there IS a market for hybrid minivans and I would love to see Toyota tap it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Jun 15 2006, 09:49 PM) [snapback]271952[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you, but I just don't see how a Hybrid minivan is going to achieve much better than 35mpg. The 'SUV economy champ', otherwise known as the Escape Hybrid, nets a combined mileage in the low 30s, and I just don't see that a hybrid minivan is going to do much better. And I can't see one selling for less than the Camry Hybrid, and it's too early to tell whether that will do well or not in the market.

And loaded HiHy's are loaded for a reason... the hybrid drivetrain ain't cheap and Toyota wants to make as much as possible on each car. But with the incentives they've offered it's safe to say they probably lose money on each HiHy that goes out the door.

 

forget the hihy and the lexus bad-boy equivalent; those are two
icons of failure on Toyota's part. Let's concentrate on what we
know is the right way to go.
.
_H*

 

well if they took the technology and used it for mpg instead of horsepower and torque... and if they decided to lay off the luxury crap that the average minivan driver doesn't care about... they'd manage a good product with decent mpg at a reasonable price.

the hihy was a bad idea- that and the lexus rx400h. a very bad idea that gave hybrids a reputation for being overpriced and not efficient. at least call the thing a power hybrid and make it obvious what your intent is...

 

Again- I think I see a consensus from other people, and I know what I want- a relatively small, space-efficient hybrid people-mover that seats 7 passengers (not a big, bloated minivan or an SUV) and that gets real world fuel-economy on the order of, say about 40 MPG. If Toyota builds it and prices it fairly, it will sell like hotcakes (why do hotcakes sell so well, anyway? )

 

I agree a mini van has to be a 4cyl ICE and seating for 7. We need that Estima mini-van in the US

 

I lease a 2006 Highlander Hybrid and own a 2006 Prius (which my wife drives). Obviously the Prius is the mileage king, but the Highlander is awesome.

I traded in a 2005 Tacoma for the Highlander and am very happy with it. I get 27-28 mpg CITY and haul all sorts of stuff around. Way more room than the Prius, plus its AWD, something we need in the winters in upstate NY. BTW, real life city mileage in the 6 cylinder Tacoma, after 1 year and 20,000 + miles, was just under 18 mpg.

As for the bad rap SUV's have gotten, I don't really care. I need the room, and the power, for my daily business use. I also happen to own a Honda Minivan. It has its uses, but even with the eco mode, which really does little, it gets real life mileage of just about 17 mpg around town.

I am just thrilled getting 50% better gas mileage, and still I have 3500 pound towing capacity, AWD, and room for 7. I have actually gotten 7 people in the Highlander Hybrid. The back seats had two kids in their early teens. No problem.

The one problem I see with the Highlander Hybrid is the steep price premium. With incentives, I paid $16K for a 3 year lease, 45K miles. I think if the Highlander Hybrid sold for $30K, it would be a steal. All in all, I think Toyota was very smart in producing this vehicle. They just got their price point a little high. Just wait until gas is $4 a gallon. Then it will move...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paprius4030 @ Jun 19 2006, 11:05 PM) [snapback]273868[/snapback]</div>

Does anyone have MPG estimates for the two hybrid mini-vans sold in Japan? And I thought I read that the Estima hybrid isn't out yet - it's a 2007 intro - but I may be wrong (astonishing thought! :blink: )