Sudden death of hybrid battery??

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by greyprius2008, Jan 3, 2017.

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  1. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    I have a 2008 Prius that has been having off and on problems for a few months- started with alert lights on the dash, not turning off, and seeming to need lots of jumps (although now I'm realizing most likely that was just because the dash was out and I thought the car needed the jump). I brought it in in 4 months ago and was told that I needed a new 12 V battery. I told them about the lights on the dash and the problems turning off, for which the explanation I was told was "weird things happen when the battery is low". Continued to have intermittent issues with not turning off and then started to have more persistent problems with all the lights on the dash off.

    Brought the car into the dealer again before a long road trip, but they could not replicate the problem and I was told the car was in "great shape". Battery tested fine. I was told they didn't know what it could be but since it wasn't doing it at the time, they could not diagnose it. I brought it back that evening when the dash was out and was told "that's weird". I didn't leave it because they were closing and I had the road trip the next day. Google helped me diagnose the issue as a combination meter problem, which was covered under extended warranty 3 weeks ago.

    Brought the car back after the road trip (10 hours with no speedometer and no gas gauge), stayed 5 hours while they tried to get the dash lights on so they could read the odometer to order the combination meter. They couldn't get it back on, so I tried to the car home over the holiday weekend, but died on the highway about half a mile away. My hypothesis was either no gas (knew I was a little low and maybe they just ran it out during the day and couldn't tell because there were no dash alerts) or battery dead for same reasons. 4 days later, when the looked at it again, I was told the hybrid battery had failed. Other information I was given was that it has an expected life of 40,000 miles (not true), and that it is common for them to die suddenly and that they only fail in an "all or nothing" way.

    2 questions:
    1) Any suggestions for working with either corporate or local Toyota for covering the combination meter that was failing in September while under warranty, but wasn't accurately diagnosed? It was covered at the time, I described a problem that google helped me diagnose pretty quickly, that is common in this car. I'm working with the dealer now and hoping they will be able to collaborate (the service associate did and said the plan was to petition Toyota to get it covered), but have needed to push them pretty hard to get any answers at all, so would appreciate suggestions.

    2) Is it really common to have an abrupt failure of a hybrid battery that tested fine 1 week before? This seems less common in my reading of other posts, but would appreciate thoughts.

    Thansk!
     
    #1 greyprius2008, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  2. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Just to confirm, which battery are we talking about? The 12 V. I don't like to assume.
     
    #2 dolj, Jan 3, 2017
  3. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    Sorry
    - Hybrid is what I was told suddenly failed after spending 5 hours with them.
     
    #3 greyprius2008, Jan 3, 2017
  4. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    What codes did they get to conclude the HV battery has now failed?

    Also, what is the current status of the12 V battery? Has it been replaced?
     
    #4 dolj, Jan 3, 2017
  5. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    I replaced the 12V in September. I did not know enough to ask for specific code on the hybrid and they are closed now.
     
    #5 greyprius2008, Jan 3, 2017
  6. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    OK, understood, thanks.

    To try and answer your other question, it is my opinion that service techs are not sufficiently trained to look at the HV battery data and be able to analyse whether a battery is good or not, and I'm not sure of any dealer that offers this kind of service, probably because of this. My opinion is that your HV battery was marginal, but at the point in time the tech looked at it, it looked ok.

    Considering the age of your car, it does seem a little premature to have failed, especially as a chap who replaces batteries for a living just said in another thread:
    However, a lot of factors come into it, heat being but one. What is the warranty in Louisiana, 8yrs/100,000 mi? If you are just out of warranty, you maybe able to get Toyota corporate to extend some "goodwill" and help with the repair.

    How may miles has the car done, roughly?
     
    #6 dolj, Jan 3, 2017
  7. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    Thanks.

    Many thanks! 115,000 miles, so it's out of warranty by years and miles. Feels like a stretch that they would have good will for that, unfortunately.
     
    #7 greyprius2008, Jan 3, 2017
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would call corporate, tell them what you have been going through, and see if they can help out.
     
    #8 bisco, Jan 3, 2017
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  9. andrewclaus

    andrewclaus Active Member

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    Ditto what's been said, and if you did run the car out of gas that could be really bad for the hybrid system, as it says in your owner's manual. Of course, you wouldn't have done that if they'd fixed the CM as you'd asked....

    I've attached a copy of the CM warranty extension document. It says the dealer does not have to witness the problem, so you have some ammunition there.

    It sure doesn't hurt to ask about goodwill assistance.
     

    Attached Files:

    #9 andrewclaus, Jan 3, 2017
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  10. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    really helpful. Thanks!
     
    #10 greyprius2008, Jan 4, 2017
  11. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    Update: turns out diagnostic test 4 months ago actually said there was a combination meter failure while it was under warranty. Corporate Toyota still declined to cover it but the dealer is going to take care of it, which seems perfectly appropriate.

    Hybrid battery failure code was P0A80
     
    #11 greyprius2008, Jan 4, 2017
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats!(y)
     
    #12 bisco, Jan 4, 2017
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  13. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    That P0A80 often indicates there is a failed cell in one of the modules. Which would mean that module must be replaced to get the HV pack functioning again - long or short term.
     
    #13 jadziasman, Jan 4, 2017
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  14. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    Can you tell me where it says anything about running out of gas being bad for the battery please? I don't see it and would really appreciate the information. (Appreciated the warranty extension document. It helped with the discussions).
    Many thanks!
     
    #14 greyprius2008, Jan 13, 2017
  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    The aspect of running out of gas is that the car (Gen II) will permit the car to continue to run on the battery only, to the point it becomes completely discharged. This is bad for the battery. If you are aware of this behavior and avoid running the battery so low, you will do no harm.
     
    #15 dolj, Jan 13, 2017
  16. greyprius2008

    greyprius2008 New Member

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    Many thanks. Sorry for all the questions. Last question (I hope). My car only is reading 1 cell down... is there a chance then that it just needs to recharge that cell, or is is likely permanently damaged with the code P0A80? (the problem developed after the car was in the shop all day, they were trying to get the car to show the odomoeter to allow them to order the combination meter, but I believe they ran down the gas as they did it. They didn't advise me of that, but seems like the most likely explanation). Many thanks and sorry for the ignorance.
     
    #16 greyprius2008, Jan 14, 2017
  17. andrewclaus

    andrewclaus Active Member

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    Funny, I couldn't find it in the OM. I thought I saw it there when I bought mine, but I must've seen it elsewhere. Sorry for the misinformation.
     
    #17 andrewclaus, Jan 14, 2017
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    By "1 cell down" do you mean one bar down on the Energy Monitor Screen"? If so, this indicates your HV battery has plenty of charge and nothing needs doing.

    P0A80 is a generic "the battery has problems" code and the battery needs to be replaced. There should be other codes to say why the battery needs to be replaced, though. P0A80 is a serious code though and should not be ignored. I doubt is was caused by anything the service shop did, it was going to happen anyway.
     
    #18 dolj, Jan 14, 2017
  19. Neil Brauer

    Neil Brauer New Member

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    Reviving a really old thread here, but I'm desperate. Did your problems ever get resolved? I have had exactly the same experience. Had a bad 12v battery (but no symptoms aside from needing to jumpstart if a dome light for left on or something). Replaced 12v battery. A few months later started having problems with combo-meter. The combo meter is behaving (for the moment) but my hybrid battery has taken a dump (Dr Prius app tells me I have a bad block 7, and 3.25% life left). It's an old Prius (2007/178,000), but it drove fine a week ago and now it acts like it doesn't even have a hybrid battery. Any help would be appreciated.
     
    #19 Neil Brauer, Sep 8, 2021
  20. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Neil,
    Your HV battery has 28 individual modules that are monitored in pairs by the HV battery ecu. The pairs are called blocks, so there are 14 blocks. Block 7 is made of modules 13 and 14 from the non-ecu end of the battery. It's very normal for this block to be one of the first to fail.

    When one or more of the 28 modules inside the HV battery begin to fail, the P0A80 code will appear, letting you know the HV battery needs to be replaced. With only a P0A80 code, the car will continue to drive normally.

    As that module(s) gets worse, the associated "block" code will trigger and the car will go into limp mode.

    It sounds like your car has gone to limp mode with a P3017 (Block 7 becomes weak). Often, the codes can be reset and the car will drive normally again, but there's no guarantee it won't code 2 minutes or 2 days later. Although it's not a perfect repair, a person can usually replace the failed module with a module (of similar capacity to the other 27) and get the car back in service. Sometimes this basic repair can last a week or it can last years, just depends on the condition of the other 27 modules.
     
    #20 TMR-JWAP, Sep 9, 2021
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