Featured Bolt the cannibal and used hybrid/plug-in generator

not to go any further off topic than we already have - the "notion" that low cars are anathema for us older folks getting in and out, I 1st remind you of one of our worst reliable cars - the Range Rover. Specifically it had air adjustable height so the queen could get in and out more easily - not that it is aero by any stretch of the imagination. That's a downfall of suv's a high drag coefficient

Enter a certain plugin manufacturer, who is now utilizing air adjustable height for the OPPOSITE reason ... actually raising the height (naturally low, in order to drive aero) in order to make egress and entry easier. That's a definite deal breaker for my better half, that we had to consider for our next purchase. We pick it up in 7 days. The fact that GM blew it, because they didn't want to add the higher price of air adjustable lowering/height to the Bolt or Volt - doesn't mean that they couldn't have done it - nor would it stop any other manufacturer. The ones that don't do it will be the followers and hopefully add the feature later on.
.

 

I thought more space == Prius v. At least that is what my son did when replacing his 2005 Prius. We went to a 2015 Prius v.

 

Not yet, and we aren't getting the hybrid at this time.

Let's not overlook the effect of relative gas prices at the time.
It was $4 a gallon here during the gen2 Prius' peak. Even with an increase in the state gas tax, it is under $2.40 now.

New GM is not old GM. The Malibu hybrid is selling now. Not much is heard about it because the people have gone back to trucks and SUVs with the low gas prices. In order the maintain the profits on those trucks, they have been having incentives on their cars all year. GM needs the Malibu hybrid, Volt, and Bolt to be successful in order to avoid CAFE fines.

Their mild hybrid system was too pricey for the benefit. A test program for eAssist on the Silverado has the price down to $500.

For those that want an efficient, full size SUV, GM is the top choice, closely followed by Ford.
Compare Side-by-Side


Toyota's hybrid program is aces, but when it comes to larger vehicles, their product literally sucks down the fuel.

The new Equinox arrives in 2018. It loses 400 pounds, and will have a tiny, 1.6l diesel option, that may or may not have start/stop

Bob, be careful not to conflate what an independent auto magazine says with GM.

Air suspensions tend to be less reliable than typical ones, and when they fail, expensive to fix. We got rid of the wife's Mark IIV because of the cost was going to be $2000 in 2000. Perhaps Cadilac's magnetic shocks can adjust the car height. If so, still expensive, but an option on the CT6.

If the Bolt is close to the Sonic, then the seat height is already higher than the traditional sedan.

Alright, the following is my analysis of the Prius Prime development. It is based solely on what has been presented here from @Danny @Tideland Prius and others.

Toyota's focus for the Prime was their home market. In Japan, residential electric service is more limited than elsewhere. Level 1 charging would take 10 hours for many at home, with Level 2 not being possible. That and higher energy costs made a solar panel roof a viable option to offer. The PV option requires a NiMH battery of about the size used in their hybrids. Under the rear seat was the obvious place for it.

This left just the cargo area for the traction pack. It sounds like Toyota designers had used a smaller pack at first. Which would have left more cargo space, but meant shorter EV range. Toyota USA said that EV range isn't going to sell here, so they had to sacrifice cargo space for more pack.

If Toyota had been considering global markets beyond Japan during development, a traction pack split between the cargo are and under the rear seat could have been developed alongside the traction pack plus battery for the PV.

 

Just blow off the COST consideration... who cares how much that raises the PRICE for consumers... why bother offering something capable of reaching mainstream consumers.

Study the past, prior to hybrids. Notice how some of the top-sellers didn't follow the logical path?

 

I hate to be the one to tell you this but, Old GM and New GM are the same employees, same facilities, and same ethics. just because the stocks changed over and they throw some cliches at consumers doesn't make them a new company.

 

What was the cost of making a product the consumers would reject(too short EV range), and going back to fix it.

The platform is designed to hold an automotive battery pack under the rear seat; the Prius has the traction pack there, and the Prime places the PV pack there. No sheet metal would need to be cut to split a PHEV traction pack between the rear seat and the cargo areas. This is the low cost option over a battery down the center where the middle seat was.

During bankruptcy, GM had to fight to keep the Volt program going. That was their best chance to let it die, and they didn't.
The Malibu has a power-spilt hybrid option based upon the system in the Volt. The CT6 will have a PHEV option next year. 30 GM models will have a start/stop system by 2018. Start/stop is YMMV, and the CAFE credits for it is pushing GM to do so, but it is more options for those that want to conserve fuel.GM To Use Engine Stop-Start On All Vehicles | GM Authority
Not supporting public DC charging is a disappointment, but my guess this is to appease those independent dealers GM is tied too.

So where is the evidence that GM is going to just punt these fuel saving technologies to the trash when no one is looking?

 

Mary Barra is quite different than Rick Wagoner and bob lutz
Mary Barra
CEO Mary Barra: using the ignition scandal to change GM's culture | Fortune.com

They have removed a lot of dead wood, and removed Saturn, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Hummer. They no longer have 5 versions of the same car that they are trying to sell.

Its a very different company. Its smaller and more focused. Stil there is a lot of dead wood in Big Auto. GM still is lugging around big money losing european operations.

 

yes, but at least they have a plan. To ensure less competition & protect the old dealership system for instance, let's just see if Tesla can ever get their products sold in Texas. There's still enough good'ol boys there to put up a fight.

.

 

It's the not investing that makes you wonder. You say Toyota didn't try, what about GM not actually offering 5 seats in Volt.

Anyone else notice that ironic/hypocritical/whatever situation?

It's especially bad when you discover that Bolt does, despite the much larger battery-pack.

 

In what way is GM not investing?

As too the four seats in the Volt, well, the T shape battery pack was how it was done in the EV1 and its four seater concepts. For a plug in hybrid car, that is FWD and front mounted engine, it is an alright compromise for a large traction pack.

Placing it under the floor without raising the car's height isn't possible with the exhaust and emission systems requiring space, plus additional in order to keep their heat away from the pack.

Not only would putting the entire pack take up cargo space, but it would also shift the car's center of gravity towards the rear, which could lead to handling issues.

I personally didn't have a problem with the four seats in the Volt, it was a compact car after all, but a lot of people and press did have an issue with it. They were a large enough group that GM bothered with fitting a half seat into the gen2. It would suck to be the bitch in the middle, but it did address parents' concerns that wanted to put a child seat there.

GM lowered the cost, lowered the weight, improved the efficiency and performance, and listened to customer concerns when they designed the gen2 Volt. How about that?

Since the four seats only critiques started when the Volt arrived, and before the PiP, the fact that the Prime is a mid size car with only four seats came as a let down. It isn't like Toyota couldn't have known that it was received as a disappointment in Volt. Perhaps it is because they were more focused on the home town market than the global one when designing the Prius Prime.

The Bolt is a pure BEV. It doesn't have to deal with the packaging of an ICE and all its attending hardware.

 

The Prime is almost 3 inches longer than the Volt, but the Volt is almost 2 inches wider.
How can the Volt be compact & the Prime mid-sized? They seem similar in size to me.

 

Mary Barra is quite different but has been employed by GM for years. GM could do way more if they weren't lugging around 4 brands. Honestly a luxury and conventional brand would do. (Chevrolet and maybe Buick) keeping 4 brands still leaves too much overlap and cannibalizes any chance of profit. GMC exists solely as an additional nameplate while bringing nothing to the table that Cadillac and Chevrolet can't easily top. They're smaller all right but still clunky.

 

Listening to the wrong people was a mistake that could have easily been avoided. Those customers were enthusiasts, not the mainstream buyers Volt was intended to target.

 

Didn't you hear?
When Toyota makes a four seat car it is because the four seat cars are seen as a luxury.
When GM does it, it is a failure to reach out to the general public.

 

Link? ~ or did you mean imo
.

 

During the bankruptcy they also put a lot people out of a job and abandoned them. GM threw everyone under the bus. Closing dealerships, plants, and chopping off half of their company. And they did they change? Not really. Volt and Bolt exist solely as people pleasers to show an effort of change. But the rest of the lineup are from that failing European branch people keep talking about. An easy way to show how overlapped they are let's break it down by platforms.

Mini- Opel Karl/Chevrolet Spark (almost identical)

Subcompact-Chevrolet Sonic(Aveo)/ Opel Corsa(different designs)

Compact-Chevrolet Cruze/Opel Astra (very similar)

Now where there is the most overlap.

Full size-Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade/Yukon/YukonXL

Mid size-Enclave/Traverse/Acadia

Compact-Equinox/Terrain/SRX/Antara/Captiva Sport/Windstrom

Subcompact-Trax/Encore/Mokka

Now, I don't have all day to go through all of them but there are several GM vehicles that are identical with very minor changes. That'd be the definition of old GM

 

Depends on what surrounds the four seats. I didn't have an issue with the removal of the middle seat. They're pretty worthless in general.

 

Same is true for people that only need a two-seater. The prime is plenty ... but if you are trying to appeal to a family of more than 4 or even if you'd just like a 5seater (many hear & on the other forums have already expressed that) - as someone recently said, 'they missed the boat' .... or how does the other saying go? "They missed their target audience" ?
.