Featured Bolt the cannibal and used hybrid/plug-in generator

Let's see, the 2016/2017 Malibu hybrid and the ELR are both voltec.

How long did it take Toyo to offer more than one VOLUME HSD?
9 years?

As usual John, wrong

 

pip runs the engine a lot, every 124 miles, and i only have 11 miles of ev.

there's a whole new world of electric cars coming, i hope i'm around for awhile to enjoy them.

 

I call out those who attempt to misrepresent history.

For that claim to be correct, GM could not have any motor & battery experience prior to Volt rollout... since that is the way it was for Toyota with Prius. Turns out, that couldn't be further from the truth. GM already had extensive experience from both EV1 and Two-Mode.

Also for that claim to be correct, GM could not have any subsidies or incentives for the first 5.5 years... since that is the way it was for Toyota with Prius. Turns out, that couldn't be further from the truth either. While there was nothing but a $2,000 DEDUCTABLE for Toyota with Prius (which came to roughly $400 on the typical tax return), GM gets a very generous $7,500 CREDIT (which is the full amount of $7,500 for most buyers). Lastly, lets not forget how many Volt got the benefit of HOV lane access, where Prius got nothing.

Lastly, ELR and Malibu aren't really much for diversification, by no means the same. Camry used a larger gas-engine, electric-motor, and battery-pack. It wasn't just a rebadge with a different body and operational limits altered. It was a truly new system. Highlander (along with Estima in Japan) added another motor, to provide AWD. That provided yet another unique choice for consumers. What does GM have to compare re-using Voltec?

Of course, if you want to match histories in this market, Volt should be selling at 4 times the current rate. Rather than the 24,000 annual rate we're seeing, it should be the 108,000 Prius was selling at.

 

And the total cost of the gas and/or electricity on a fairly low miles per year car will be dwarfed by interest (or forgone discount, or forgone investment income if you buy with cash), depreciation, taxes and insurance.

And only time will give us that depreciation number.

Who knows what these cars will be worth 5 years from purchase.

 

C-HR is Toyota's solution to that.

 

is that available to buy?

 

wow - un since we're 'not' rewriting history, let's also 'not' remember that genII Prius (2004) did have yellow stickers in the largest state, California, as well as access in other states' HOV lanes. Moreover it wasn't just EV1 that had big federal & state incentives (at least California's state) the Gen 1 RAV4 EV had the same sizable chunk of incentives. I say we drop the, "my favorite manufacturer's better" pissing contest. It's not really much of a difference.

no - but they say, "soon".
.

 

I didn't remember that 2004 brought the HOV. Are you sure it wasn't until later? Whatever the case though, that's still over 3 years without for Prius.

There's still no excuse for those other factors to be totally disregarded. Being off by a date is quite different from omitting something entirely.

 

I'm assuming the 9 years you speak of is from the Prius (1997) to the Highlander/RX hybrid (2006). Now, considering GM had the EV1 in the early to late 90's why did take them more than a decade to create a production Hybrid? At that the Hybrids they did create were almost catastrophes (2008 Vue/Malibu/Aura) very problematic automobiles. GM has yet to make one volume HSD vehicle that was remotely successful and why? They truly do not want it to be successful. if a successful GM HSD did take off as say the Prius, other models would lose money on every sale which GM doesn't want. they'd rather stunt a possibly successful automobile for profits of models they can roll out for little cost.

 

September 23, 2004 is when approval for the yellow stickers was given. Distribution followed shortly afterward. They were not effective until January 1, 2005. So... the HOV access was first available for the 2005 model.

Again, writing off the first 4 years isn't exactly a true representation of what actually happened. I do appreciate the fact-checking effort to keep it all on the up & up though.

Point being, we're still getting a lot of excuses from GM supporters. The need still very much exists for targeting showroom shoppers. Watching the Bolt vs. Volt battle playout isn't helping those who simply want a high-efficiency SUV.

 

As long as we are correcting memories the hybrid tax deduction expired in 2005 and was replaced with the hybrid tax credit in 2006 that has also expired. Most manufacturers did not take advantage of the tax credit, Toyota did.

If Toyota was serious about electrification their TNGA would have been designed for batteries. Instead the Prius makes do by trying to find a place to stuff them. Toyota also had the opportunity to offer the Camry only as a hybrid.

 

sadly that's often the case, whether it be for the Prius the volt the leaf Etc. Heck, we even saw jacked up contractor prices for installing our solar when the largest rebate & tax credit benefits came to California. Same with our J1772 evse. Again - not too dissimilar from the goings on in varied industries or even between varying manufacturers.

wait!! Shouldn't we be bashing Ford also? After all they had the hybrid Escape SUV in 2005.

.

 

Toyota US marketing needs to get their act together when promoting the Prius family. If you navigate their web site looking for a car, you will not see the Prius. It is a Hybrid, not a car (??)

They need to include the Hybrids in the proper group, either "Cars & Minivan" or "Crossovers & SUVs", etc.

 

Toyota placed production-cost, ride-quality, and EV driving as higher priorities. Are you saying that should have been traded off for the sake of offering more cargo room?

GM has already provided quite a bit of real-world data from Volt showing the price consumers are willing to pay is absolutely vital, it must be competitive with traditional vehicles. From Prius itself, Toyota learned the value from improving rear-suspension and cabin-sound. And of course from the market as a whole, it's easy to see the emphasis being place on the EV experience.

All those priorities were taken very seriously. That's exactly what has been delivered for Prime. To just toss those aside without care or consideration of how they'd be impacted by another lesser priority isn't constructive... especially when you know that mid-cycle could potentially introduce an improved battery-pack, one that's smaller.

In other words, I'm not buying the "need more space" argument without any reasoning. It's easy to get on-paper claims that fall apart in real-world experience. That happens in a regular basis. We need solid examples. After all, that's how those other factors became higher priorities.

 

Speaking of remember gen-2...

Let's not forget how relentless the Volt enthusiasts were about how their gen-2 sales would absolutely dwarf what Toyota did with gen-2 Prius.

That didn't happen, not even close. It's a hard lesson learned about paying close attention to true priorities, not falling for hype. Expectations online can distort & mislead from what ordinary customers actually place value on.