Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

There is already spin. Kia says they used the more efficient EX Trim, but Wayne, in the first link says they has the less efficient LX Trim. I wonder which is correct?
Being a pre-production car, the answer may be neither.

 

Then you might want to follow: Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid the new MPG champion, beats Prius Two Eco | PriusChat

Using the EPA roll-down coefficients, we can calculate how much power is needed to sustain any given speed:

1. IONIQ(1) - is the electric vehicle (EV) which does not have the cooling drag needed by the hybrid versions of the IONIQ and Prius
2. Prius ECO - has fractionally lower drag, 9.0 hp vs 9.6 hp, than the most efficient IONIQ at 75 mph
3. At colder temperatures, the Prius have more drag

We see this in the EPA ratings: Compare Side-by-Side

	model	combined MPG	City	Highway	volume
1	IONIQ Blue	58	57	59	123 ft{3}
2	Prius ECO	56	58	53	118 ft{3}
3	IONIQ	55	55	54	123 ft{3}
4	Prius	52	54	50	118 ft{3}

I don't care for percentages because they are often done badly but here are several versions:

• +11.6% - IONIQ bragging percentage of IONIQ Blue over Prius, mismatched models
• +3.6% - IONIQ Blue percentage over Prius ECO, matched models
• +1.8% - Prius ECO bragging percentage over IONIQ, mismatched models
• +5.8% - IONIQ percentage over Prius, matched models

So by every metric, the IONIQ has moved ahead of the Prius family with better fuel efficiency, 3.6% vs 5.8%, and larger interior volume, 123 ft{3} vs 118 ft{3}. The drag curves suggest it is the more efficient drivetrain which includes the engine and transmission. Well done even if 17 years late.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob -

How would you explain the previous VW fiasco regarding Diesel? I'm wondering if Toyota overall has better real-world figures for their hybrid versus what Ioniq will have. Time will tell. Is your BMW i3e living up to EPA? When you owned a Prius did it live beyond it?

 

One clue came from the diesel owners claiming better than EPA performance. In hindsight this makes sense because the cars were turning off their emission controls to run more efficiently. Yet when I plotted the Fuelly reported MPG, the Jetta TDI was still trailing the Fuelly reported Prius numbers. At the time, I thought it might be just a control law issue, not a totally fraudulent emissions cheat.

This is the first model year of a new model. So let's give Hyundai a little head room to tweak the car and get the infantile problems resolved.

The BMW i3-REx fully meets the EPA numbers, neither sand bagged nor inflated. I am completely pleased with the results and the dynamic cruise control and accident avoidance technology is brilliant. But there is a risk with a first model year of a new model ... infantile problems.

A motor mount bolt broke Friday afternoon before a planned, week long trip to Arizona. Visiting the shop yesterday, the replacement parts are aluminum instead of the structural plastic, and appear to be more substantial. Even though we could have used the Prius for the trip, it lacks dynamic cruise control and that is a significant aid on long distance driving.

As for our two Prius, the first tank of the Gen-1 was disappointing. But once I did a series of mph vs MPG benchmarks, actually on the drive home, the car fully met the original EPA numbers and exceeded others. Within three months, I was getting 52 MPG year-by-year, highway and city. But I am OK with driving at 65 mph on the highway.

The Gen-3 Prius has the same performance as the Gen-1 but 5 mph faster with more power and interior volume. I almost turned down the deal because to get dynamic cruise control and accident avoidance, I would have had to pay nearly $8k more, $6k for an upgraded trim and $2k for the safety package.

The Gen-3 was a first model year, new model and suffered infantile problems: brake pause; failed AUX port, and; dead rear window defroster trace. But it is a welcome backup car while the BMW i3-REx is being repaired.

Bob Wilson

 

Gerdes has done similar trips, and reviews many cars on his site; www,CleanMPG.com

I believe the Niro is already selling Europe. So this should be a production car.

 

The following table shows the emissions performance for US06 which both the Prius and two IONIQ trims performed:

	Represented Test Veh Make	TOYOTA	HYUNDAI	HYUNDAI
1	Represented Test Veh Model	PRIUS	IONIQ	IONIQ
2	Equivalent Test Weight (lbs.)	3375	3250	3375
3	Test Originator	EPA	MFR	MFR
4	Test Procedure Description	US06	US06	US06
5	THC (g/mi)	0.0111435	0.023	0.0112
6	CO (g/mi)	0.0365604	0.1723	0.7067
7	CO2 (g/mi)	182.9164116	168.6289	187.4906
8	NOx (g/mi)	0.0028244	0.0028	0.0009
9	PM (g/mi)		0.0011	0.0006
10	CH4 (g/mi)	0.001483
11	N2O (g/mi)	0.0002441
12	RND_ADJ_FE	48.6	52.9	47.6

• weight - suggests the first IONIQ is the "Blue" model
• CO - unlike port injection, a homogeneous mix is hard to do with direct injection
• PM - direct injection engines are tested for particulates
• NOx - looks like both are doing a great job of controlling combustion temperature

Bob Wilson

 

The key will be as you say ... "time will tell."
I can say that owners in Europe and Asia, where Ioniq's are in the hands of the public, many are reporting very favorable numbers. What is a little confusing are questions about Imperial gallons, and at least for me, metric conversions.

I suspect we will need to wait for the vehicles to be sold locally to completely answer your question. From the very first reports that were written, it was speculated the Ioniq would get better highway milage than the Prius, and the Prius would do better in stop and go traffic. Personally, I'm anxious to see an Ioniq in person ... and see if I like the real thing as much as I like the pictures.

 

Know exactly what you mean. I'm old enough to remember before we in UK went part metric from our very logical duo-decimal system with pounds, shillings and pence (£.s.d.), pints and imperial gallons. Now I have to mentally convert miles to km, lbs to kg, etc, etc. Then our cousin's across the pond have themselves a whole new gallon that isn't the same as the imperial gallon. It's no wonder I'm grey! .

 

Hi Maxwell,

You may want to think about this a little more:

We have a problem in the USA with 'fake news' where folks post misleading stories. Sad to say, in the USA 'free speech' apparently allows a lot of latitude. So let me suggest a more balanced report: Kia Niro Hybrid’s 76.6 MPG Cross Country Trip Sets Guinness World Record

. . .
Its official EPA mileage rating for the standard FE package is 52 mpg highway, 49 city, and 50 mpg combined. Kia doesn’t list the EX model’s mpg, which was used in the cross-country trip. How the drivers were able to make the leap to 76.6 mpg in highway driving wasn’t explained, but a safe guess is they utilized every hyper miler technique feasible.
. . . ​

The problem is there are 'professional' high mileage drivers like John and Helen Taylor. For a fee, they will take pretty much any car out and generate a press release about what great mileage they got. Wayne and Robert are in the same business. The only problem is such 'records' give a false impression of what the vehicle does in ordinary service. But these four are not alone.

We know the Japanese and Europeans have driving tests that give woefully inflated numbers, way too high compared to what real world drivers can achieve. Our own EPA updated their testing in 2008 because their numbers were in some cases, the Prius Gen-1, too optimistic.

Of all the outside tests, the ones that have real merit are the old Edmunds "Smackdown" series. I wish they would bring them back. The protocol was a gang of 3-4 cars of similar size would take a three day test drive from San Diego to Las Vegas, around town, and back. They swapped drivers and everyone filled at the same place, method, and time. Funnily enough their results often came within spitting distance of the USA EPA numbers.

In this case it is worse because there are no EPA metrics on this vehicle. But it kinda fits the hype the Koreans are using for their cars. I don't fault them for trying but I'd rather have EPA metrics ... as long as we can still get them.

Bob Wilson

ps. We dropped our subscription to Consumer Reports because their MPG and scores are impossible to replicate. Their non-highway MPG appears to let vehicle warm-up costs take an excessive hit. As for their vehicle 'score', my analysis indicates 'a comfy chair' is all that matters and MPG need not apply.

 

Hi Bob, no mistery, go to the cleanmpg link i gave: the user xcel is wayne and he just said the trim of the tested car was the LX, (Epa rating given) , not the EX.
And of course is evident that wayne runs are always hypermilers results, not what everyone can get. For the mass, EPa is the reference. But of course many of us where very interested in the hypermiling possibility of that powetrain. I admit, better than i thought.
Nonetheless i dont give a shit about internal combustion archaisms, i only see an EV future. Glad of your choice of the i.

 

Does the Guinness record say that?

There in lies the rub. Is it OK to use a Guinness record as a marketing tool?

For those who advocate "hypermiling" driving style the problem is the difference between it and 'real life.'

Understand I'm OK with pretty much any plug-in that has separate EV and range extended mode. I am tolerant of blended hybrid mode but my preference is binary over blended.

The problem with the BMW i3-REx is it does not 'bank power' by running the ICE at peak efficiency and then shutting off to use the banked energy. Other than that one flaw, I have no complaints.

Bob Wilson

 

Just a suggestion, ask Mr. Google about "kia record". One such result: Kia Niro sets arbitrary Guinness World Record for fuel mileage and nobody cares - Autoblog

The Niro crossover is Kia's first dedicated hybrid, with a company-estimated 50 miles per gallon combined rating, which is enough to set it apart. A world record, though, sounds cool and official, even if they're a dime a dozen these days. Kia presumably paid Guinness its consultation and licensing fees, created a new record category, put hypermiler Wayne Gerdes and co-driver Robert Winger behind the wheel, and off they went to create a very specific piece of history.
. . .
As Guinness World Records become increasingly abundant, they might mean less to the general, non-record-holding public. They're still a source of pride for the record holders. "We're extremely pleased with the Niro's record-breaking performance," says Kia product planner Orth Hedrick. "We set out to build a vehicle that offers real-world utility, great looks, and fantastic mileage, and setting the Guinness World Record title confirms our achievement."

Building a dedicated hybrid crossover from the ground up is hard work. 76.6 mpg is an achievement. A Guinness World Record? Anyone can do that.​

Unskilled, this is what I was trying to point out. If you are still impressed by the driving record ... good for you. Buy one and then share your performance. FYI, I tried to find the actual Guiness record report but the Guinness search function is record breaking inept.

Bob Wilson

 

I could not find the Kia either.
I found the Prius has a Hybrid record.
Toyota breaks hybrid car parade record to celebrate launch of new Prius | Guinness World Records

 

The Cleanmpg link includes the EPA ratings for the three trims.

Let's continue any Niro record discussion here; 2017 KIA NIRO SETS GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS™ and official EPA ratings | PriusChat

 

The following is a buyers comparison of the Ioniq hybrid and the Prius:

"We looked at the new Prius 4 [before deciding on the Ioniq]. What a car! Drives really nice and has nice safety features. However, the bath-tub looks of the middle console is just horrible. Also it has no Apple Car or Android Auto. The navigation system is slow and sluggish, no volume button (only on touchscreen, where one has to really look). The build quality of the Ioniq also seemed to be a class above Prius (just better feel and quality). Then there is also the price. The Ioniq costs almosts 5k less then the Prius and has nice additional features such as heated steering wheel, leather seats with A/C, and so forth.
Also Ioniq has 5 year warranty vs. 3 year warranty for the Prius.

Yes, the Hyundai does not have a HUD (which I found to be really nice in the Prius), however that is not a biggy, since now there is now an after market HUD which is better then any current HUD in any available car. It connects to the OBD connector in the car. So, f.e. if you start getting low on fuel, it will even automatically calculate the nearest route to a gas station. It connects to Iphone/Android."

Seems fairly objective. I will not be purchasing until spring, but inasmuch as I have never seen the Ioniq in person ... it's nice to read comparisons by actual buyers and not magazine writers (with their agenda's and prejudice)

Change of subject:
I am not a fan of Guiness records. I occasionally see on the media where someone has done the most stupid thing, sometimes hurting themselves, trying to get into the record book.

 

Mind a name or link?

 

Somehow this reads like you're trying to justify a decision already made. Understand I'm OK with this approach but I would suggest a requirements analysis is a little more involved.

Typically an requirements analysis would consist of the mandatory and optional. For example, replacement of our 03 Prius:

• 120+ mile range (reach Nashville, TN from Huntsville, AL)
• collision avoidance and dynamic cruise control
• for sale
• first model year a multi-year warranty

Thereafter, it was a question of optional requirements, what it should do, which can be weighted:

• efficient (30%) - lowest cost per mile
• power (25%) - enough to tow 1,700 lb trailer
• tow capable (20%) - rear vs front wheel drive
• cross-country capable (15%) - 1,000 miles in 24 hours
• easy cargo loading (10%) - side larger than a door opening to all interior space

Now my decision in May 2016 was driven by another schedule. At that time, there was no IONIQ and the 2016 Prius ECO did not have collision avoidance and dynamic cruise control. I was offered a 2016, Level 3 that met the mandatory requirements but I had also found a car that met the mandatory requirements and scored higher on the optional. Since that car price was bracketed by two quotes on the 2016 Level 3, it was an easy decision.

What I'm suggesting is step back from IONIQ advocacy and start talking about requirements ... what your next car MUST do and SHOULD do. List the SHOULD in priority order and you're doing a requirements analysis. Note your optional or SHOULD requirements can include esthetics.

BTW, I rolled by the Toyota dealer and asked about the Prius Prime. Although weak in some of the optional requirements, the Prius Prime scores high in efficient. But it misses 'for sale' in Huntsville or anywhere near ... just like the IONIQ.

Bob Wilson

 

On the Ioniq forum.

 

Thats fair .... and I am most definitely evaluating the Ioniq. Truthfully, it's the Ioniq hybrid or nothing right now. (I already own a Toyota Avalon hybrid. Great vehicle ... just putting too many miles on it.)
The new Prius' exterior and interior design is an absolute turn-off. (I'm a visual type of guy).
The Prime OTOH, is somewhat better looking, but I have only seen pictures. But I'm not sure I want to invest the additional money in a Prime...... but it remains on my short list.
So I'm considering the Ioniq hybrid, or the Prius Prime. (apples and oranges)
The Volt, Bolt, Leaf are not on my short list.

BTW Bob, I enjoy your post. They are always thoughtful, well researched, and right on point.