Toyota recalls one million cars globally

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Jun 4 2006, 09:15 PM) [snapback]265780[/snapback]</div>

If you want to know why E85 is not more available, just follow the money. Big oil is lobbying and spending money feverishly to stop the E85 movement. It could actually break up the oil company monopoly in this country, resulting in much lower gas prices for you and I.

I drove my '07 Tahoe yesterday morning about 125 miles and got 20 mpg with 5 adults in the vehicle. I was burning E85 so I only burned .9375 gallons of gasoline. Try taking 5 adults 125 miles in your Prius and getting 133 miles to the gallon of gasoline.

I will say this again, there are many parts to solving the gasoline price problem. Hybrids are a part, E85 is a part, lighter vehicles is a part, bio diesel is a part......

 

I don't believe we are 'saving' fossil fuels with the production of such a HUGE petro dependent product such as ethanol. Not using corn anyway.

Seems a good idea for farmers, I've no problems there...but with the bigger picture...how can we justify the subsidies to produce something that uses alot of water and petro in the 1st place? Is that the definition of sustainability in the bizarro world?

All the "pro-studies" done on this subject ignore the inputs from petro-fetilizer and machinery as well as the enormous water resources needed to grow corn. Maybe if other substances are also used, that would yield more energy (Brazil and the sugar-cane based ethanol come to mind).

I'm all for a many-sided solution. For me, spinning a windmill or collecting solar energy, then charging a li-ion battery to drive a car seems more benign right now. Am I missing the big corporate picture? Why not go this route? What's the problem (since I obviously see ethanol problems and no problems with EVs and the like!)

Cheers,

Curt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jun 7 2006, 08:57 AM) [snapback]267154[/snapback]</div>

I agree IN PART with Malorn. A "hybrid" approach, if you will, (hybrid cars, EVs, ethanol, biodiesel as well as alternative energy sources such as wind and solar) is our best hope of reducing dependence on oil. However, the equation that results in his truck getting 133 mpg (ignoring the energy required to make the 85% ethanol in his tank) is obviously not valid.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Jun 7 2006, 10:27 AM) [snapback]267238[/snapback]</div>

Following your reasoning, is your prius mileage valid when you don't take into consideration the fuel it took to pump the oil out of the ground, pump it through a pipeline to a port, transport that oil 1/2 way around the world, again unload it, pump it to a refinery, refine it into gasoline, adn then transport it via rail, truck etc to the midwest.(where I am and where E85 should be very prevalent)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Jun 7 2006, 10:02 AM) [snapback]267226[/snapback]</div>

I'm not 100% sure about MANY potential alt fuels (long-term) myself, and I research several of them (that's how I stumbled across this site) but having used and assisted in the creation of bio-diesel first-hand, AND having farmed (personal property; only about 2 acres) I know this much:

Corn, if we are to use that specific example (because, as mentioned, there are many sources for ethanol) is a 'hearty' plant. Again, using my own personal experiences, we grew corn on the 'left-over' land; either real estate that was crop rotated into near mineral depletion, or simply coarse rock-ridden areas that weren't worth the time to till and grow anything else on. The water supply was the same scenario; we used a horrid flow system in many areas that surprised us when corn was still growing. If you're not concerned with the 'flavor' of your corn, it takes little to grow tons of it. Pesticides were a non-issue in my case, as our pest problems were strictly confined to ground-related insects. I have no doubt that in a larger environment, pesticides would need to be used, but how much oil could that possibly be? Considering the price of corn oil, I can only assume it is relatively small. I haven't seen a marked increase in corn oil due to the increasing cost of crude oil. BTW, I purchase my clean oil from Smart & Final at a retail price of (approximately, as they sell it by the pound vs. gallon) $2.80/gallon. After final processing we're out the door at about $3 bucks. Not a huge cost savings right NOW, but keep in mind, gas prices are rising, and I have at least TWO middlemen before I see my oil. This STILL tells me that crude oil is not playing a significant role in production, as the price hasn't adjusted (much) for this. Trucking it is probably still the biggest expense. Also, biodiesel (again, my experience) gets me about 2-3mpg better gas mileage and a cleaner burning engine, with less coking and wear/tear. This translates into a vehicle that will stay on the road longer. When you see how much oil is used just to BUILD a car (see my previous post) it seems that there is an additional savings.

(I'm not trying to pimp this particular alt fuel, BTW, just trying to throw out information that can either be refuted or added to/amended, etc. to keep the awareness out there.)

As far as subsidies go; I don't think ANY of them are needed for ANY future fuel source. That goes for State kick-backs or any other financial incentive. No offense. Let capitalism run its course and leave big government out of it. It seems every time the Gov't. gets involved creativity and true original thought gets curbed. If you allow the best product to be released on it's own, I think the solution will reveal itself sooner.

couple more pennies in the well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 7 2006, 05:43 AM) [snapback]267150[/snapback]</div>

Did you actually GET 20 mpg w/E85? So, Consumer Reports running on gas got 9/19 for an overall of 14 mpg.

From http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2001cartablef.jsp?id=22932, here are the EPA ratings for 07 Tahoes while running on gas vs. E85:
2WD E85: 12/16, 13 combined (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2001cartablef.jsp?id=23041)
2WD gas: 16/21, 18 combined
4WD E85: 11/15, 13 combined (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2001cartablef.jsp?id=23048)
4WD gas: 15/21, 17 combined

I do agree w/your last statement but there's still debate on the amount of energy input needed for a given amount of energy output of E85.

 

The single biggest problem with E85 is the water. The Ogallala Aquifer supplies most of the irrigation water for midwestern E85 corn. It cannot sustain being pumped at a significantly higher rate in order to water the corn in order to make Ethanol.

Ethanol from corn in the USA simply can't scale because of the vast amounts of water which are not available.

Driving an E85 guzzler is nothing to be proud of.

I do hear a lot of big SUV drivers talk about Ethanol as the savior. It's obviously a pipe dream, they don't want to give up the vehicle, and E85 promises that they can keep it.

What I would like to see is E85 have its tax subsidy removed and gas tax added to it. It would cost about $1 more than gasoline, and then the market could truly decide.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ May 30 2006, 12:57 PM) [snapback]262920[/snapback]</div>

One quick question expidition? american made, whats the vin on your vehicle i would wager your car is probably more mexican and canadian then american. one of the few american made trucks that you can still buy is ironicaly a toyota tacoma, so if you would be so kind as to give us your VIN we can all see exactly where your as you put it American made car is built. same goes for moast american cars. but ironicaly there are many asian car companies that build right here. such as the camery is built at the numy auto plant in i believe freemont CA. oh and also getting 4 mpg is so great. sure have fun with your top heavy vehicle.
I would never sell my prius, unless i am getting another one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(caliprius83 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:15 PM) [snapback]268913[/snapback]</div>

You only need the 1st character of the VIN, not the entire VIN.

The Camry is NOT built at the Fremont, CA NUMMI plant. I've toured the plant before. They build the Corolla, Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe (see http://www.nummi.com/vehicles.html) there. American made Camrys are currently made in Georgetown, KY.

See http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/man...ring/index.html for a list of what's being built where in the US.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 30 2006, 12:59 PM) [snapback]262921[/snapback]</div>

"The September 2005 recall involved an estimated 3.8 million Ford trucks from the 1994-2002 model years; it included the Ford F-150 pickup as well as the Ford Expedition, Lincoln Navigator and Ford Bronco SUVs."

The above quote from one of the links from articles above kinda puts this in perspective, don't it? Hey Expedition, post this on a Ford site and sign yourself Prius and look out for those flames (literal and figurative!).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BVISAILMAN @ May 30 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]262917[/snapback]</div>

Hmmm, Ford fixed my SHO tranny for free AND paid for a rental car during the repair. Chevrolet had me in and out in under 1 hour for a recall because they had the parts and set up 'short' appointments.



Honda just blew me off when they recalled my Honda Civic Hybrid and I just asked if I could have a 'short' appointment.

I can hardly wait to see how well I will be treated if and when Toyota recalls my 2005 Prius...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ May 30 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]262920[/snapback]</div>

- Not the 38,000 AMERICANS toyota currently employs here...

- And the plants that have been for over 20 years...


Toyota NA employment

Try this:
GM Wolrdwide Plants

JAPAN
RUSSIA
Columbia
Germany
France
South Korea
Spain
Portugal
Belgium
Egypt
Chile
UK
Austria
Ecuador
Mexico
Brazil

Get over it...get real

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 1 2006, 11:58 PM) [snapback]264486[/snapback]</div>

Ford roll over much?

Engines spontaneously com bust much?

Tires give out?

Gas mileage in the toilet?

 

E85 is a non-issue currently. It costs (a lot!) more than gasoline and has less energy! On July 6, wholesale price of ethanol was $3.52/gallon vs. $2.49/gallon for gasline. Who would buy E85 at this price? The gas station in the article below (my source for prices) stopped selling it. The lack of stations with E85 pumps doesn't even matter, if those with pumps aren't even using them! Until the price is more comparable with gasoline, E85 is not a solution. It'd be like a plug-in hybrid (choice of two fuels) but electricity costing more than gasoline. Until the situation reversed, people (most) would use gas and ignore the plug in part until the prices were comparable. SOURCE: Louisville Courier-Journal July 7

The funny thing is the price of ethanol isn't because of all the flex-fuel cars being produced, (since most are using gasoline anyway)... but the elimination of MTBE in favor of E10. In my opinion, until MTBE is elimated and E10 is completely phased in, E85 is worthless. Once the market stabilizes, things could change, but that could be a long way off.

I remember when only the "cheapie" gas stations were selling E10 and the majors selling 100% gas, since it brought the price down. Now the E10 gas brings the cost up! Crazy market economics!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(caliprius83 @ Jun 9 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]268913[/snapback]</div>

C'mon, you arent the only one that can read a VIN here. When the production of a Tacoma meets that of an F-Series truck or a Silverado, then perhaps the need may arise for other plants. At last count, the full sized Ford pushed almost 800K units for the 06 year. (Ford has FOUR plants in the USA for the F-Series ALONE) The Tacoma was about 1/4th of that. If thats too "apples to oranges", the full size Tundra doesnt even meet the figures to be included on the top 10 list for 2006 sales. Some Tacoma's are built in the US, but of the near 200K of them built in 2005 (the most current COMPLETE figures i have right now) 25K of those were built in Mexico too. So you see... even by your reasoning (and their own smaller scale production) Toyota is following the same business sense as Ford, GM and DCX. Why? because like it or not, it works and Toyota would be stupid to not take advantage of the free trade agreements in NA. Still, like it or not, percentage wise Toyota and Honda still make a ton of Camrys and Accords that have the "J" in the Vin.... I see it every day. I hate to be so negative with my first post and all, but to imply that the Tacoma is 100% American made when it in reality has NA production percentages similar to the companies that are being berated here is wrong. If i remember correctly as well, Ford's only Mexican truck production plant no longer exports to the US and makes the F-Series trucks for the Mexican domestic market only.

Nobody here is in the dark to the facts of foreign OEMs having North American assembly plants. Sadly, unions are responsible for alot of the troubles facing the American auto companies. Ford, GM and DCX all support incredibly large amounts of former employees through retirement and pensions. It will be interesting to see in 20 or 30 years how Toyota and Honda fare when they have to support 250K people that no longer actively work for them while continuing to produce. FUN FACT - Ford's per vehicle costs for health care are higher than for STEEL. So now does some of it make sense as to why they are in such trouble?


FYI - i have 3 vehicles currently. All 3 built in the USA. Down to the "1".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mastergunnera8 @ Jul 7 2006, 09:57 AM) [snapback]282606[/snapback]</div>

As stated in my previous posts, you are distorting facts here. read down that list and see how many of those vehicles are for the US domestic market. When was the last Holden you have seen rolling down the street? What? You didnt know they still make the Chevy Caprice and have never heard of the Chevy Tornado? How about the 2007 Falcon XR6? Or the new Ford Pursuit? Hey, take a test drive of the newest Opel. They are all from American companies after all....

Just because GM has plants in Brazil doesnt mean its making cars there for the US. Hell, Europe, Thailand and most of Asia in general have a completely different Ford Ranger than the US gets.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ May 30 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]262909[/snapback]</div>

Someone driving a Ford Explosion mocking a Prius. What a hoot.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ May 30 2006, 12:57 PM) [snapback]262920[/snapback]</div>

Most Ford and GM products are primarily made in Canada and Mexico, not to mention China. Nice going moving American jobs out of America.