Prime vs Volt Fuel Economy

thank you for doing this in 'merican.

 

That's a fantastic plot.
But here is the way I would look at it:
For many of us on the typical US electric grid, 100 MPGe is more like 50 MPG fossil fuel equivalents basis (and I am being generous). So in that case Prime wins all the time, if you are looking at CO2.
If you have lots of renewables in your mix, perhaps Canada, then the elec miles are indeed less CO2.
If you are not looking at CO2 but you mainly want to look at getting off petroleum, then Volt wins unless you have the long commute.

Long story short, if I had a say I'd probably try to get us off the MPGe system, which to me is an PR attempt to make EV miles sound better. I'd just go with kWhr/mile and not try to equate it MPG.

 

A different way to look at it.

 

Playing with numbers comparing the Prius, Prime, & Volt to my civic strictly in gasoline savings per year for my work commute based on gasoline cost from $1.90 - $4.00/gallon.

Commute ~143 miles per day X 4 days per week - annual PTO.

Values use for calculations:
Civic 34 MPG (lifetime over 160,000 miles)
Prius 52 MPG
Prime 54 MPG, subtracted 20 miles/day off commute for EV range
Volt 42 MPG, subtracted 50 miles/day off commute for EV range

Civic vs Prius (two) vs Prime vs Volt


Prius (two) vs Prime vs Volt


One other factor I thought of is that I wouldn't need to pay to have 240 v power run to the garage for the Prime, I can live with 5 hour charge time, but the Volt wouldn't be practical as charge time on 120 v take twice as long.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

All these cars are incredibly cheap to fuel compared to cost to purchase and insure.

 

True. The Prius is about $300-$400 more or year to insure.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

true, but many gassers are expensive to fuel, on top of the purchase.

 

More than my Civic. One huge factor is have 2 teenage drivers on my policy. Demographic is another. A civic costs more to insure than an accord.

Haven't priced insurance for a Volt. I would be surprised if it was less than the others.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

This is not accurate.
Using the 2012 grid, about 60% of the population lived in an area where an EV would be more efficient than 50mpg.
Northern Virginia actually is at about 60mpg (back in 2012).
Four years later, many more coal plants have closed, and there is a lot more wind and solar online.
No 'perhaps Canada' about it, if you have your own solar anywhere in the U.S. or live in California, most of Texas, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, much of Virginia, much of Pennsylvania, New York, Maine, Delaware, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, you would have been getting better than 50mpg 4 years ago.

However, the point that this varies from location to location is a good one.
A good resource for seeing how EV vs gas holds up in your location is:
EV Emissions Tool | Union of Concerned Scientists

The above is if you are charging solely off the grid.

 

Doing this analysis by state is a bit disingenuous because there are only three utility grids in the US - East, West and Texas (Ercot). If you are anywhere on any of those interconnects, you are essentially sharing the power from the whole area. The control areas are smaller by far, but they aren't delineated by states either (there are several in my state of Colorado, for example). So doing it by state doesn't make much sense.

 

Did somebody do it by state?

 

Um, how is that? Less expensive car.

 

Actually it would make more sense if it was figured out by neighborhood. But that would be extraordinarily difficult. I really doubt someone's puny solar array even makes it past the neighborhood transmission station. Most likely it ends up in your closest neighbor's house who don't have any transmission.


Unsupervised!

 

That's not how electricity works. You can't trace power in to power out on the grid. It's like dumping water into a reservoir from many creeks and then trying to figure out which creek the water from your faucet came from.

 

In terms of insurance, it is not compared to the Honda civic for me. (YMMV)

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Of course that's how electricity works. If transmission line and converter losses didn't exist then I would agree with you. But If I'm surrounded by electricity sinks and I'm the only source then just how far do you think my electricity travels? No way in hell can you tell me that my 3kW is gonna make it past the neighborhood transmission station that has 150kW on the source side. In fact I would say a lot of the 3kW is being lost due to transmission and conversion loss as heat. It's all about pressure and sources and sinks. It's exactly the same as if I tried to put water in the main from my water well pump. The 40lbs I would put would be overwhelmed by the main pump operating at 100 lbs.


Unsupervised!

 

There's no way to tell, exactly as I told you.