Bush, Senators Renew Fight Against Gay Marriage...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mystery Squid, Jun 5, 2006.

Page 2 of 3
  1. hilore

    hilore New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    135
    0
    0
    Location:
    Palm Springs, CA
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Jun 5 2006, 09:32 PM) [snapback]266377[/snapback]</div>
    I think you got it backward.

    Will bush pull out the abortion card next?

    --hilore
     
    #21 hilore, Jun 6, 2006
  2. mehrenst

    mehrenst Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    439
    7
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenGene @ Jun 5 2006, 02:41 PM) [snapback]266235[/snapback]</div>
    Henceforth, all American Flags will be printed on flashpaper. Now, prove that I burned something. Where's the ashes? :p
     
    #22 mehrenst, Jun 6, 2006
  3. mehrenst

    mehrenst Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    439
    7
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jun 5 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]266268[/snapback]</div>
    Sorry but you're dead wrong. This is a Republic and not a free-form Democracy. The representatives are suppoe to pass laws for the benefit of all and not to please the thinking of a special interest group. They tried that once with Prohibition and found out it didn't work.

    Once you venture down this kind of path of denying rights by COnstitutional Amendment what's to keep some future Congress and the "will of the people" from passing a Constitutional Amendment denying the protection of the law to another "socialy unacceptable" (at that time) group of which you might be part.

    If you don't like the idea of two people of the same sex getting married then you should marry one of the opposite sex.
     
    #23 mehrenst, Jun 6, 2006
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,499
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    What is illegal about two individuals of the same gender getting married? In other words, how am I negatively affected by it?

    How many illegitimate and unplanned pregnancies have come out of same-sex marraiges or even same-sex prom dates?

    If you take out the argument that "it says so in the bible" then what's the remaining part of the argument against it?

    What's the tangible, repeatable scientific proof that it will represent the downfall of America?

    Doesn't it seem odd that the Bill of Rights extends rights to the population rather than restricting the citizens' rights?

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ Jun 6 2006, 03:35 PM) [snapback]266860[/snapback]</div>
    Lest you forget, President Bush was elected by a mandate of the people. He's impervious to criticism and can do no wrong. The people said so.
     
    #24 TonyPSchaefer, Jun 6, 2006
  5. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jun 6 2006, 05:38 PM) [snapback]266894[/snapback]</div>
    Well, you CAN argue "social stability" issues, how kids are better off with traditional couples, how it's overall "healthier" in this respect or that, etc., etc., etc.... Most certainly does not have to pivot around the bible, or any other religious component...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ Jun 6 2006, 04:35 PM) [snapback]266860[/snapback]</div>
    Yeah, you're right. I DON'T like the idea at all. But do I CARE what YOU chose to do? Nope.
     
    #25 Mystery Squid, Jun 6, 2006
  6. gschoen

    gschoen Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    343
    3
    0
    Location:
    Chicago/Wrigleyville
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Can't believe those activist judges. Who do they think they are? Do they REALLY think the Judical branch of government is equal in powers, and how naive they are to think they are part of the checks and balances theory of government!

    Personally, I think we should go all the way and amend the Constitution to abolish the Judiciary, they're toally unnecessary. The Legislature can make the laws and the Executive can enforce and do the job of those terrible ACTIVIST JUDGES!

    I'm sure the framers of the Constitution had no idea the Judiciary would make such a huge power grab. They always intended the President to have as much power as he needed for the safety of the nation. It's a wonder there wasn't another revolution when Marbury v. Madision decision was handed down! The nerve of those judges!!!!!

    Where does the Judical Branch get the idea they're an equal branch of government? Who came up with this foolish idea of checks and balances? Doesn't everyone know the majority is ALWAYS right?
     
    #26 gschoen, Jun 6, 2006
  7. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    7
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gschoen @ Jun 6 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]266909[/snapback]</div>
    Read this essay on the United States Department of State International Information Programs website:

     
    #27 IsrAmeriPrius, Jun 6, 2006
  8. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jun 6 2006, 06:41 PM) [snapback]266915[/snapback]</div>


    ...and what about the ruling by some judges who feel they can change the Constitution that essentially allows the gov. to take your home for "public benefit" or whatever the precise wording is... Boy, that spirit of checks and balances is alive and well, too bad it will never manifest itself into anything other than a "spirit" indeed...
     
    #28 Mystery Squid, Jun 6, 2006
  9. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    337
    0
    0
    Location:
    Vermont
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenGene @ Jun 5 2006, 04:41 PM) [snapback]266235[/snapback]</div>
    You forgot abortion.......

    Remember....Fear, Queer, Smear....right from the Republican play book.

    It works though. Can't blame them for sticking to that. :(


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jun 6 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]266899[/snapback]</div>
    Squid...my best friend is a psychologist and I asked him about this last year. He said there are many studies on the effects on kids who come from a same sex union. The answer, there are no ill effects. The kids turn out just fine. Kids need a stable home life and support from two parents, whether those parents are same or opposite sex. It doesn't matter. If two people love each other and are committed to each other, they can raise perfectly normal kids.
     
    #29 eyeguy13, Jun 7, 2006
  10. amazingarthur

    amazingarthur New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    49
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jun 5 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]266145[/snapback]</div>
    You righties are IDIOTS! Most of the judges in power now were appointed by the right! ARGHHHH!

    How does allowing gay people to get married hurt your marriage! Where in the New Testament (that is what separates Jews from Christians) anything against gays getting married or even being together. Leave these people alone! Gay people are part of the solution, not the problem.
     
    #30 amazingarthur, Jun 7, 2006
  11. jclay1965

    jclay1965 New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    51
    0
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco, California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    BUSH IS AN IDIOT. Since when should the Government be involved in telling people who they can and can't love? Give me a break. Conservative right-wing Christians, get over it!
     
    #31 jclay1965, Jun 7, 2006
  12. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,499
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yeah, Squid. I know that there are those who say that same-sex marraiges will prove to be the downfall of American society and God will smote us all for allowing it to happen. But that's why I asked the follow-up question (and if you're going to answer one, you have to answer them all): "What's the tangible, repeatable scientific proof that it will represent the downfall of America?"

    And no, Squid, I'm not picking on you it's just that you answered first and I'm just keeping the conversation going. When I worked in public schools, I worked with hundreds (yes, hundreds) of children who had one mother and no father. As far as I'm concerned after having seen it year after year, this is the downfall of American society. Give the kids two parents and a loving environment regardless of their parents' gender; it's got to be more stable and more developmentally advantageous than a single mother raising three children and working two jobs. You see, we've tried that experiement in American already and it ain't working out. There already is hard-fast evidence of this. I just want to see the hard-fast PROOF that same-sex marraiges can generate children even worse than gang warfare.
     
    #32 TonyPSchaefer, Jun 7, 2006
  13. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jun 7 2006, 09:30 AM) [snapback]267174[/snapback]</div>
    There was no need to answer the follow up question, I'm sure there's research out there in which some "scientist" somewhere has "proof" same sex couples are disatrous to children. You can ALWAYS get someone of legit credentials to support an idea no matter how ridiculous you might think it is. On top of that, when you say something amongst the lines of, "laws based on scientific proof...", sort of makes me chuckle, for I'm sure there are PLENTY of laws based on anything but scientific proof... :lol:

    No one said you were, or at least I didn't take it that way.... :)

    As for your stated experience, I'm not sooo entirely sure... I know several people (myself included) who grew up with only one parent (figures right! :lol: ). Of course, the one parent didn't have 3 kids and 2 jobs, and I can totally see your point there... However I also don't think same sex couples are the total answer per se, but, and I'm sure you'll agree, the parenting behind it. Same goes for the mom with three kids and two jobs, I'm sure there are moms (or dads) out there in similar circumstances that are excellent parents. Personally, the whole thing rubs me totally the wrong way, and I don't like it at all, but that's just me, and I really don't care what others to do, as I've said before I wouldn't vote against it... On top of that, when people start talking "hard-fast evidence" to almost anything I get skeptical. It's been my experience, just about any "evidence" can be interpreted in many different ways (or even torn apart and proved to the contrary), particularly with respect to something as nebulous as social issues...
     
    #33 Mystery Squid, Jun 7, 2006
  14. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,499
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Statistics are like a well-made French bikini: they'll show you enough to get your attention but hide the important parts. :D

    But yeah, we agree that a loving environment is important to a child's upbringing and development. There are "normal" families producing disfunctional children and "disfunctional" families producing upstanding leaders. So with this scatter chart of results, how can anyone say that cross-gener is better than same-gender? For that sake, wouldn't it make more sense to outlaw divorce or abandonment? If a loving environment is best for the upbringing of children, why should we put a legal restriction on the definition of "loving environment?"

    Also, we've broght children into the mix. Let's take them out. Is it possible that some same-sex couples won't have children? If you answered yes in the same way that some cross-gender couples don't have children, then surely you would have to admit that they truly are hurting no one by being in love and happy.
     
    #34 TonyPSchaefer, Jun 7, 2006
  15. rick57

    rick57 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    572
    6
    0
    Location:
    Circleville, Ohio
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I think there has to be more important items to spend their time on than the gay marriage issue. What next,mixed marriages? How about the poor economy in some of the states like mine ( Ohio ). There are so many factories/jobs lost around here that it is effecting everything including my job. Work has been down since last year but I read that the economy is great. Not from where I sit. Back to the topic,gays and mixed marriages don't bother me,it is just a fact of life. I bet it has been going on for decades if you look into it. Lets get over it and dig into the more important issues,Washington! And not to forget the states also. They are just as bad. I say we write to the poloticians and voice our disagreement with all this. That is what I plan on doing. Let them know they will not be voted for at the next election. Let the people speak! :angry:
     
    #35 rick57, Jun 7, 2006
  16. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    468
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    wow, bushboy wasn't so against those activist judges when they were on the side of keeping terri schiavo alive...

    oh wait. that was his OTHER face...
     
    #36 galaxee, Jun 7, 2006
  17. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    7
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jun 7 2006, 07:58 PM) [snapback]267675[/snapback]</div>
    Nor was he when they selected him as the winner of the 2000 presidential elections.
     
    #37 IsrAmeriPrius, Jun 8, 2006
  18. toyotablackbox

    toyotablackbox New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    64
    0
    1
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    My Prius is neither gay(?) nor trying to get married to anyone. I'm so confused.
     
    #38 toyotablackbox, Jun 8, 2006
  19. Subversive

    Subversive New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    251
    0
    0
    #39 Subversive, Jun 8, 2006
  20. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    2,544
    2,487
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Isn't it about time to bring out the flag burning thing to get the base worked up. :blink:
     
    #40 huskers, Jun 9, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 3