Do you believe the official version of 9/11?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by jared2, Mar 22, 2006.

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  1. imntacrook

    imntacrook New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Capt132 @ Mar 31 2006, 01:36 PM) [snapback]232995[/snapback]</div>
    Their version?? Their version ?? Hell I watched it on TV in real time!! I don't need anyone's version.
     
    #61 imntacrook, Apr 5, 2006
  2. Begreen

    Begreen Member

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    #62 Begreen, Apr 5, 2006
  3. Begreen

    Begreen Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 5 2006, 08:56 AM) [snapback]235282[/snapback]</div>
    I'm sympathetic to how hard it is to accept that there may be a larger and darker picture behind what happened. It would probably shake up core faith and cause your head to explode. No one wants to believe a really big lie.

    I also saw it on TV realtime, but could only watch one channel, thus the value of videotape. Have you since reviewed "all" the available tapes, maybe in slow motion? How are you explaining the anomalies? How did WTC building 7 collapse in it's own footprint? Why was all the evidence skirted away to China? That is an unexplained and totally illegal act. No real forensics were allowed by impartial engineers, physicists, architects etc. Only one MIT prof submitted a "conjectured" theory for the collapse of WTC 1&2. Funny, this was immediately refuted by his top grad students as total BS. Perhaps it's a grand delusion, but the majority of New Yorkers don't believe the truth is being told. They didn't watch it on television, they were there. Their friends and comrades were there at the scene. What they saw and heard is not at all of what is being reported. If one is trusting mainstream US media to paint the whole picture, it could be a long wait.
     
    #63 Begreen, Apr 5, 2006
  4. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    The top 15 reasons to doubt the official story of Sept. 11, 2001

    See link: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

    Disclaimer
    Background Issues: The Abiding Truth Deficit
    1) The 9/11 Commission Fraud: Conflicts, Collapse and Cover-up
    2) The Hundreds of Still Unanswered Questions, the Scores of Documented Lies
    Motive Issues: Cui Bono - Who Profits Most?
    3) Instant Fulfillment of Neocon Wish List
    4) Political Bonanza for Bush/Rove team
    5) Scale and Diversity of Profiteering
    Means and Opportunity Issues: How to Make it Happen
    6) Ignored Foreign Warnings
    7) Quashed Domestic Investigations
    8) Incapacitated Oversight
    9) Disabled Air Defenses
    10) The Amazing Disappearing National Chain of Command
    11) The Pakistan Intelligence Chief Who Loved Everyone At Once
    Aftermath Issues: How to Keep the Lid On
    12) The Bitter Fight Against Investigations
    13) The Amazing Disappearing Evidence
    14) The Amazing Disappearing Demand for Accountability
    Wildcard Issues: Just How Stupid They Think We Are
    15) The Ripley Believe It or Not Sideshow of 9/11 Miracles
    Epilogue: For the 9/11 Legacy Victims Still Dying in New York
     
    #64 jared2, Apr 5, 2006
  5. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    500 Conspiracy Buffs Meet to Seek the Truth of 9/11


    By ALAN FEUER
    Published: June 5, 2006

    CHICAGO, June 4 — In the ballroom foyer of the Embassy Suites Hotel, the two-day International Education and Strategy Conference for 9/11 Truth was off to a rollicking start.
    Joe Tabacca for The New York Times

    Tonya Miller Bailey, of Indiana, in the rally at Daley Plaza on Friday that served as the conference kickoff. "We've done a lot of solid research," one participant said.

    In Salon Four, there was a presentation under way on the attack in Oklahoma City, while in the room next door, the splintered factions of the movement were asked — for sake of unity — to seek a common goal.

    In the foyer, there were stick-pins for sale ("More gin, less Rummy"), and in the lecture halls discussions of the melting point of steel. "It's all documented," people said. Or: "The mass media is mass deception." Or, as strangers from the Internet shook hands: "Great to meet you. Love the work."

    Such was the coming-out for the movement known as "9/11 Truth," a society of skeptics and scientists who believe the government was complicit in the terrorist attacks. In colleges and chat rooms on the Internet, this band of disbelievers has been trying for years to prove that 9/11 was an inside job.

    Whatever one thinks of the claim that the state would plan, then execute, a scheme to murder thousands of its own, there was something to the fact that more than 500 people — from Italy to Northern California — gathered for the weekend at a major chain hotel near the runways of O'Hare International. It was, in tone, half trade show, half political convention. There were talks on the Reichstag fire and the sinking of the Battleship Maine as precedents for 9/11. There were speeches by the lawyer for James Earl Ray, who claimed that a military conspiracy killed the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, and by a former operative for the British secret service, MI5.

    "We feel at this point we've done a lot of solid research, but the American public still is not informed," said Michael Berger, press director for 911Truth.org, which sponsored the event. "We had to come up with a disciplined approach to get it out."

    Mr. Berger, 40, is typical of 9/11 Truthers — a group that, in its rank and file, includes professors, chain-saw operators, mothers, engineers, activists, used-book sellers, pizza deliverymen, college students, a former fringe candidate for United States Senate and a long-haired fellow named hummux (pronounced who-mook) who, on and off, lived in a cave for 15 years.

    The former owner of a recycling plant outside St. Louis, Mr. Berger joined the movement when he grew skeptical of why the 9/11 Commission had failed, to his sense of sufficiency, to answer how the building at 7 World Trade Center collapsed like a ton of bricks. It was his "9/11 trigger," the incident that drew him in, he said. For others, it might be the fact that the air-defense network did not prevent the attacks that day, or the appearance of thousands of "puts" — or short-sell bids — on the nation's airline stocks. (The 9/11 Commission found the sales innocuous.)

    Such "red flags," as they are sometimes called, were the meat and potatoes of the keynote speech on Friday night by Alex Jones, who is the William Jennings Bryan of the 9/11 band. Mr. Jones, a syndicated radio host, is known for his larynx-tearing screeds against corruption — fiery, almost preacherly, addresses in which he sweats, balls his fists and often swerves from quoting Roman history to using foul language in a single breath.

    At the lectern Friday night, beside a digital projection reading "History of Government Sponsored Terrorism," Mr. Jones set forth the central tenets of 9/11 Truth: that the military command that monitors aircraft "stood down" on the day of the attacks; that President Bush addressed children in a Florida classroom instead of being whisked off to the White House; that the hijackers, despite what the authorities say, were trained at American military bases; and that the towers did not collapse because of burning fuel and weakened steel but because of a "controlled demolition" caused by pre-set bombs.

    According to the group's Web site, the motive for faking a terrorist attack was to allow the administration "to instantly implement policies its members have long supported, but which were otherwise infeasible."

    The controlled-demolition theory is the sine qua non of the 9/11 movement — its basic claim and, in some sense, the one upon which all others rest. It is, of course, directly contradicted by the 10,000-page investigation by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which held that jet-fuel fires distressed the towers' structure, which eventually collapsed.

    The movement's answer to that report was written by Steven E. Jones, a professor of physics at Brigham Young University and the movement's expert in the matter of collapse. Dr. Jones, unlike Alex Jones, is a soft-spoken man who lets his writing do the talking. He composed an account of the destruction of the towers (www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html) that holds that "pre-positioned cutter-charges" brought the buildings down.

    Like a prior generation of skeptics — those who doubted, say, the Warren Commission or the government's account of the Gulf of Tonkin attack — the 9/11 Truthers are dogged, at home and in the office, by friends and family who suspect that they may, in fact, be completely nuts.

    "Elvis and Area 51 — we're sort of lumped together," said Harlan Dietrich, a recent college graduate from Austin, Tex. "It's attack the messenger, not the message every time."

    To get the message out, the movement has gone beyond bumper stickers and "Kumbaya" into political action.

    There is a plan, Mr. Berger said, to create a fund to support candidates on a 9/11 platform. There is a plan to create a network of college campus groups. There is a plan by the British delegation (such as it is, so far) to get members of Parliament to watch "Loose Change," the seminal movement DVD.

    It would even seem the Truthers are not alone in believing the whole truth has not come out. A poll released last month by Zogby International found that 42 percent of all Americans believe the 9/11 Commission "concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence" in the attacks. This is in addition to the Zogby poll two years ago that found that 49 percent of New York City residents agreed with the idea that some leaders "knew in advance" that the attacks were planned and failed to act.

    Beneath the weekend's screenings and symposiums on geopolitics and mass-hypnotic trance lies a tradition of questioning concentrated power, both in public and in private hands, said Mark Fenster, a law professor at the University of Florida and author of "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture."

    As for the 9/11 Truthers, they were confident enough that their theories made sense that on Friday, as a kickoff to the conference, they met in Daley Plaza for a rally (though some called it Dealey Plaza). They marched up Kinzle Street to the local affiliate of NBC where, at the plate glass windows, they chanted, "Talking heads tell lies," as the news was being read.

    "I hope you don't end up dead somewhere," a companion said to a participant, hours earlier as he dropped him at the Loop. "Don't worry," the participant said. "There's too many of us for that."
     
    #65 jared2, Jun 6, 2006
  6. amazingarthur

    amazingarthur New Member

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    I am suspicious of what hit the Pentagon. There has not been a sign of a crashed airplane there. Some surmise that it was a missle. Weird..........

    Why was Bush and company so against an investigation into 911?

    I don't put anything past these criminals, but I need more proof before I say it's a conspiracy.

    They are to incompetent to pull this off.
     
    #66 amazingarthur, Jun 7, 2006
  7. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Amazing Arthur @ Jun 7 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]267097[/snapback]</div>
    And yet another example of why we should be happy people like this are not in a place of power.. :lol: :lol:
     
    #67 hycamguy07, Jun 7, 2006
  8. Rattiemama

    Rattiemama New Member

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    I absoloutely do not beleive the government story of what happened on 911. I'm far more inclined to beleive the last article posted. Personally I have been pointing my finger at him for some time now. I watched Loose Change for the first time shortly after it came out, and felt vindicated. However, there is a lot of highly questionable information in there (at best). It is important to have a critical mind to both sides of the issue.

    If the government's story is correct, what would be the harm in an INDEPENDENT investigation? IF they have nothing to hide, then the investigation will only prove them correct. Such an investigation should be conducted by a well rounded group or people with many differing views who are NOT under the influence of political powers.

    I don't think it will take 75 years for the truth to come out. I think once Cheney's gneration starts fades out, things will change a lot. I just hope the current governmet hasn't destroyed the evidence they have been hiding all this time.

    And by the way, patriotism comes in many forms. I beleive in the ideals of the our country, and that those ideas should be upheld. One of those ideals is constant vigilance to preserve our freedom. Take a look at what our lapse in vigilance has earned us. Our media watchdogs have become lapdogs, we entered a war under flase pretense, our phone records have been tracked without our knowledge, and our citizens are being held without knowing why. That's a lot less patriotic than questioning the party line.
     
    #68 Rattiemama, Jun 7, 2006
  9. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Amazing Arthur @ Jun 7 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]267097[/snapback]</div>

    What!!!!!!!!!! I saw the photos..sure looked like a plane to me. YOU ARE (oh, you gotta be kidding)
     
    #69 Schmika, Jun 7, 2006
  10. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Amazing Arthur @ Jun 7 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]267097[/snapback]</div>
    er, maybe they didn't feel the necessity of spending x millions of your money on something you already know?

    :rolleyes:
     
    #70 Mystery Squid, Jun 7, 2006
  11. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    No answers...just questions. Hmmm, sounds like it's time for...

    The Decider! (Daily Show reference, in case not all enjoy this great show).

    He'll tell us and show us EXACTLY what we should hear and see.

    End of debate, now go on with your lives.
     
    #71 finman, Jun 7, 2006
  12. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    New York Times and the "Truth Movement"? their's an oxymoron if I ever heard one! :rolleyes:
     
    #72 Wildkow, Jun 8, 2006
  13. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jun 8 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]267831[/snapback]</div>
    And, of course, you never heard one before you saw them on Priuschat. :p
     
    #73 jared2, Jun 8, 2006
  14. Jeannie

    Jeannie Proud Prius Granny

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 22 2006, 07:12 PM) [snapback]228711[/snapback]</div>
    <gasp> OMYGOD! ya mean that laser light projection ot the Twin Towers was just a test-run of the optics that now make it appear that you can see the sky where there used to be a couple of buildings?
     
    #74 Jeannie, Jun 9, 2006
  15. Jeannie

    Jeannie Proud Prius Granny

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Jun 7 2006, 12:30 PM) [snapback]267289[/snapback]</div>
    Perhaps the poster is talking about the recently-released "official" videos of the crash of the plane into the Pentagon - there certainly didn't seem to be a plane in the videos when I looked at the videos on line. But then I also don't know where the video cameras were located in relationship to the side of the Pentagon that was damaged - late in the videos I could see flame and smoke coming from "behind" a building that was visible in the far top left-hand corner of my screen. If my assessment of what I saw on the videos is correct, then, whatever hit the Pentagon woudn't have been in the view of the video cameras. By the time time the plane/missile/whatever entered the field of view of the video camera, the 'flying object' would have been too close to the ground to be seen.

    Do I believe that planes hit the WTC and Pentagon on 9/11? YES.
    Do I believe that many people were killed and injured at those sites? YES
    Do I believe that many other people have suffered 'bad consequences' as a result of those crashes? YES
    Do I believe there was a conspiracy to commit the atrocities of 9/11? YES
    Do I believe Osama bin Laden was a contributor to that conspiracy? YES
    Do I believe George W. Bush was a contributor to that conspiracy? YES
    Do I believe that George W. Bush took advantage of the events of 9/11? YES
    (I happen to dislike GWB, but I believe ANY US President would also have taken advantage of those events to further his own political agenda - that's part of what 'politics' is about.)
     
    #75 Jeannie, Jun 9, 2006
  16. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Member

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    Wow, I not a fan of President Bush.He and his arrogant bunch bit off waaaay more than they can chew, but of course none of them, or their relatives are going to be going to Iraq.However, it is beyond belief to think President Bush would have conspired with Osama to attack the USA!!
    There is a much simpler explanation.
    1)Osama and company hate us because we back the Saudi regime, and we back Israel.Simple!
    2) It was fairly simple to hijack 4 planes and crash them into the buildings.5 young,armed men could easily overwhelm a couple of older pilots, and passengers who were unaware of the suicidal nature of their plan.
    3)Why would GWB have used Osama in his "evil plan".GWB main aim was always Iraq.He would have set up an incident involving Iraq, not Afganistan and Al Quaida.GWB would have made Saddam the evil doer, not some camel jockey no one ever heard of!!
    Only a gullible fool would think GWB and company conspired with Osama!!Hey,GWB main AGENDA is TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY!!
    GWB and his Neocoms thought they could easily, and cheaply remake the middle east with this Iraq adventure.This is what happens when someone with very little world experience, but waaaay too much confidence is elected president.There isn't any mystery here.
    This happened because the Dems aren't the party of the middle and lower class anymore.They are controlled by folks who think BS like abortion, gay marriage and gun control is important.While they were pushing this extremely unimportant BS, the country was being taken over by the party of inexperienced Xenophobic overconfident fanatic ideologues.Great job Dems!!
    The Dems will shoot themselves in the foot in 2008 if they are stupid enough to nominate the one candidate the Reps could beat.Luck,Charlie
    PS The Dems need to nominate a veteran with a clean Iraq war record.The guy in Ohio, very nearly won in his first try in a heavily Rep district!!One who won't be reluctant to attack any fellow vets who "swift boat' him.He needs to appear to be aggressive-not like Kerry or Gore.He also needs to flat out say that abortion isn't important to him, because it isn't.We are on the outs with the whole F - - ing world; does anyone really think allowing a moron (who didn't use birth control-duh,I forgot??) to have an abortion is important???Important as the mess in Iraq???
    Just the abortion issue lost the election for Gore-and probably Kerry.It is a multimillion vote issue-nothing so unimportant has every been such a vote loser.Many lower econ class folks-the dems natural const. will never vote pro abortion.They view it as killing unborn babies(which it is of course).I really don't care if some careless, unthinking moron want to kill her child-Darwin at work- but many folks view it very differently.

    Do I believe that planes hit the WTC and Pentagon on 9/11? YES.
    Do I believe that many people were killed and injured at those sites? YES
    Do I believe that many other people have suffered 'bad consequences' as a result of those crashes? YES
    Do I believe there was a conspiracy to commit the atrocities of 9/11? YES
    Do I believe Osama bin Laden was a contributor to that conspiracy? YES
    Do I believe George W. Bush was a contributor to that conspiracy? YES
    Do I believe that George W. Bush took advantage of the events of 9/11? YES
    (I happen to dislike GWB, but I believe ANY US President would also have taken advantage of those events to further his own political agenda - that's part of what 'politics' is about.)
    [/quote]
     
    #76 phoebeisis, Jun 9, 2006
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Welcome to PriusChat phoebeisis. Nice to see another voice of reason here.
     
    #77 daniel, Jun 10, 2006
  18. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    #78 jared2, Jun 19, 2006
  19. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    I have great respect for David Griffin even though I don't agree with his religious views. If all religious people were like him I might convert!
     
    #79 jared2, Jun 19, 2006
  20. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Member

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    Jared2- I should have been more clear; I forgot who I was talking to. It is beyond belief that President Bush would have conspired with Osama to attack the USA- FOR ANYONE BUT AN OUT AND OUT GULLIBLE FOOL.
    I read your link; just because someone doesn't act like a crank, that doesn't mean he isn't a crank!You think that makes him right?? All the proof you require is measured,calm tones? I have a bridge I would like to sell you- G R E A T P R I C E !
    You guys keep missing the point; PRESIDENT BUSH DIDN'T NEED ANY EXCUSE TO ATTACK IRAQ!! HE CAN ORDER THE TROOPS DO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, WHENEVER HE WANTS!! HE COULD HAVE USED ANY OF NUMEROUS SADDAM'S VIOLATIONS OF THE 1991 "NOT QUITE PEACE TREATY" TO ATTACK IRAQ!!
    There are so many holes in this theory-Where do I begin??
    DO YOU REALLY THINK OSAMA WOULD TRUST PRESIDENT BUSH TO NOT "SET HIM UP" AS A FALL GUY. Prevent Osama from carrying out the plot-roll up all the hijackers-get them to talk?? Oh,I forgot, then one of the hijackers would have revealed his face to face conversations in the White house (with pictures no doubt)with GWB!! Do you really think GWB would trust Osama to not reveal this "plot"-with pictures of a smiling Osama in the Lincoln bedroom???
    PT Barnum was right, but now it is every second!! Luck,Charlie
    Daniel- nice cat- we have 4 = one greyhound who is buddies with 3, but terrified of one.

    "it is beyond belief to think President Bush would have conspired with Osama to attack the USA!!"

    It is not beyond belief. See link:

    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060616221050157
    [/quote]
     
    #80 phoebeisis, Jun 19, 2006
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