Why the BMW i3-REx

Also don't forget that Tesla HPWCs speak the J1772 protocol, and adapters now exist to use them with J1772 cars. So, if a business has Tesla HPWCs installed, you can use those to get 16.6 or 19.2 kW depending on voltage.

 

Please post Plugshare locations in the US of 120 kW CCS DC FCs. I've never seen nor ever heard of any publicly accessible CHAdeMO nor SAE Combo (aka J1772 CCS aka Combo1) DC FCs that were over 50 kW in the US, let alone significantly above.

There also aren't any SAE Combo compatible vehicles that can sustain high charge rates for very long. Their batteries are too small.

 

Wasn't claiming they were in the field. I mentioned it to show that for long range BEVs, CCS has the advantage. CHAdeMO knows this and is playing catch up in increasing the output of its standard.

CHAdeMO was developed for Japan, a nation with a great rail network, and average annual car miles is less than the US. The thinking there was that BEVs would only be short range city cars. On top of that, electric service to about half of the residents results in much longer charge times on AC L1 and AC L2 isn't possible. A DC charger putting out 50kW is plenty for a <100 mile BEVs and PHEVs that can't fully charge at home.

Then Nissan is a big partner of CHAdeMO. The Leaf has no active cooling for the battery. DC charge speeds for it needs to be balanced against heat generation in the battery.

The Supercharger standard started at a kW rating near were the CHAdeMO one topped out at. This was to get a reasonable charge time for a 200+ mile BEV. A 50kW DC charger is fine for a 100 mileish BEV to get a quick charge to ensure it has juice to get home. For 200 miles, people will soon be asking for faster chargers, and like 5000psi hydrogen stations, the majority of those 50kW chargers are going to get upgraded. When that happens, the ones not tied to a dealer will get both plugs.

CHAdeMO's number advantage in the US will be short lived.

 

actually, the CHAdeMO's installed in Europe have been 100kW for ~ a year now, iirc - as the Kia Soul is capable of receiving that level of power - since their ev is actively cooled.
What's surprising to me is that Tesla has been the only manufacturer with enough common sense to build an adapter so that the supercharger enabled cars can utilize the 2nd most popular format, CHAdeMO. Why in the world SAE format folks haven't seen the wisdom in providing something like that, escapes me.
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But that isn't going to help gen2 Leafers in the US

With the arrival of the Bolt, public DC chargers are going to be installed with both plugs going forward. The cost of doing so is tiny compared to the total cost of the charger and its installation. 50kW CHAdeMO and CSS ones now in the field will slowly fall out of favor, and will be replaced with faster ones. Mono standard ones will become dual ones at this time.

Because it wasn't CHAdeMO that supplied the adapter to Tesla. CHAdeMO is a second most common format now. Tesla owners demanded an adapter, and Tesla built one. CCS is still new, and for most Tesla owners, a Supercharger is likely more convenient. When high power DC chargers show up with 100kW CHAdeMO and 120kW(170kW in Europe) CCS, which do you think Tesla owners will want to use?

Tesla has joined CharIn, the organization pushing CCS in Europe. Just checked the CHAdeMO Association site, and Tesla is a member. So Tesla is being neutral, and they do want all BEVs to succeed.

 

How about adding an auxiliary gas tank?

Also as a thought, I believe every BMW dealership has at least 1 charging station. Have you checked to see if any of these are available to BMW plug-in owners? My local BMW dealer's charging station is available to the public. I haven't see those in your charging location maps.

 

Not so much more difficult that trying to add external batteries. Also note the the edit I did to my post #250 regarding BMW dealers.

 

yes - the CHAdeMO network can be a lifesaver in the barren spots like Arkansas or the Dakotas to Tesla long distance drivers. It might take a clever entrepreneurial type to come along to build /sell adapters for all the others. Believe it or not - there ARE gen1 & 2 Rav4ev's now equipped with DIY'er J plugs - & there aren't near the #'s of them around. Adapters will remain relevant, as long as the network isn't saturated, & adapters can actually serve to keep old EVSE's in operation.
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Adapters are useful. Leaf collectors are going to need a CCS one in the future for their cars.

In seriousness, CHAdeMO is available in numbers because Nissan has sold a fair number of Leafs across the nation. The only CCS equipped car that sells in any numbers nationwide at this time is the i3; a car priced at least $10k than the Leaf. CHAdeMO has a nice head start over CCS, but it looks like it will be losing the lead.

• The Bolt will be nationwide available and supports CCS.
• The Ioniq BEV will use CCS.
• VW will be building a lot of chargers as part of their cheater diesel punishment, and their plug ins support CCS.

Outside of Japan, Nissan, and by extension, Mitsubishi and Renault, appears to be the only big supporter of CHAdeMO. The other Japanese companies support it, because it is the standard for Japan, but they have a small plug in presence outside of Japan. I think the Prime will have it in Europe, but it won't North America. The Clarity will likely have it.

So I don't think CHAdeMO will disappear like betamax and HD DVD. Its sole advantage in having more chargers installed will slowly disappear though. Independent charger companies aren't going to turn away potential customers over the small cost of having a dual format charger. Leaving mono format ones to be only found on dealer lots.

Back to adapters. Tesla making a CHAdeMO one isn't a statement of endorsement. They are just a customer conscientious company, and I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a CCS adapter ready for production for when the chargers are more numerous. The Supercharger network hasn't stopped expanding either.

 

agree it"s likely to not take over ... but outside japan - there is also Hyundai/Kia - and although the Soul EV (iirc) may not yet be sold nationwide - its quite popular here in cali, ... a couple of 'em regularly crowding our already overcrowded workplace L2 stations. Hyundai's brand is growing quick. I'm still thinking it's too soon to tell which way things will go. Honda could leapfrog a couple manufacturers - & release a DC charger equipped plug in. Ya never know ... it's still early.

 

Yes, the Soul EV is CHAdeMO, but the Ioniq BEV is going to be CCS. It appears Kia will follow Hyundai, "Perhaps with a future switch in mind, Kia has already installed multi-standard DC fast chargers at its dealerships (CHAdeMO + CCS Combo)"
Hyundai Confirms SAE Combo 100 kW Fast Charging For IONIQ Electric

The prototype Clarity making the show rounds has CHAdeMO, which I expect it the keep for the US market.

 

The businesses that chose to be Tesla Destination chargers had the option to pay more to have a J1772 installed as well as the standard HPWC. It's no surprise that many/most declined.

That being said, if you bear the price of the adapter, I doubt the business cares what you're charging -- especially with approval of if you're a paying guest in a hotel situation.

In my area, this is one of the only ways I can consider a BEV(100) when travel is involved. It sounds like your metro area is a little more forward thinking.

 

It was stupid of the CCS supporters to even bother shipping a CCS vehicle in the US.

GM barely sells in Spark EVs (Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard) that's only available in 3 states, their only vehicle w/optional SAE Combo. GM won't fund its infrastructure:
GM Won't Fund CCS Fast-Charging Sites For 2017 Chevy Bolt EV. And look at the deception campaign with
GM and Nissan trade punches over electric car fast charging

Back then, they had nothing shipping w/CCS in 2012 and they barely have anything shipping with it years later (only the above 3 state vehicle).

BMW with the i3 ended up having to support THREE DC FC standards: CHAdeMO for the Japanese version (CHAdeMO inlet is on the rear fender where the J1772 inlet would go while the J1772 inlet is in the FRUNK!), Combo1 for the North America and Combo for Europe. Talk about a dumb move.

 

BTW, re: higher powered charging, I spoke to a guy at Motiv Power Systems at the recent Cupertino EVent. They use some weird connector that allows for higher amperage charging that typically what J1772 allows. I think he told me that the signalling and pilot and all is just like J1772 though.

In Europe, Renault had been shipping the Zoe with 43 kW AC (3-phase?) charging via their Chameleon charger. From what I understand, it uses the motor windings as part of its OBC. But, I heard the 43 kW capability went away: Renault ZOE to Lose 43 kW Rapid Charging in Preference for Improved Home Charging | Transport Evolved.