Toyota recalls one million cars globally

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 1 2006, 08:58 PM) [snapback]264486[/snapback]</div>

There was a time when the phrase 'Made in Japan' meant 'Cheap Junk'. American cars were once very well made, and ruled the road. Today, however, those same American car companies are shadows of their former selves, after some mergers with foreign car makers and some honestly terrible engineering. Toyota has its problems, too, that is to be sure. American car companies have quite a way to go before they get back to making really good cars.

My dad, who drove Fords and Buicks when he was young, has a Honda. He tried another Ford once, but it lasted all of three weeks before it gave out. Not that he was a racer, mind you. The car simply one day refused to leave a stoplight because the automatic tranny was gone. The old saying 'They dont make them like they used to' applies very well to the American automobile industry.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 08:57 AM) [snapback]264586[/snapback]</div>

When E85 is actually readily available where I live and its true cost is EQUAL TO or LESS cost than gasoline (including the fact that you get seriously lower MPG's when burning ethanol than gasoline), then we'll talk.

Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy your frequent and costly trips to gas pump.

I know I enjoy going there now, but only go half as often and don't spend nearly as much when I do. LOL :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 12:34 PM) [snapback]264683[/snapback]</div>

No, Troll, you need to learn to read. What he actually said was:

And, that you CAN'T deny.
I think if you actually spent any time on this board that you would find that most people on here are very open to any alternative fuel technologies, and most don't fool themselves into thinking the Prius is the end-all to our energy problems. Get a life, elsewhere, please.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finally_got_one @ Jun 2 2006, 01:43 PM) [snapback]264834[/snapback]</div>

“We do not believe in planned obsolescence. We don’t change a car for the sake of change.â€</span>
<span style="color:#3333FF">- 1959 Volkswagen advertising slogan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

That old saying would apply very well to the American automobile industry if your premise were true to begin with.
Unfortunately, the American automobile industry had never produced “very well made cars.â€

Apparently you had not heard of the US auto industry's abuse of Planned Obsolescence.
They would make their cars good enough to only last a few years, because they had the buying public hoodwinked into buying a new car every couple of years. Why make a good car that lasts when they could sell them a NEW, IMPROVED, MORE STYLISH car in a couple of years? That is why the Japanese makers have done so well. They ate Detroit's lunch with quality cars that get good gas mileage.

For many many years, the US auto industry didn't improve their cars . . . . they only improved their marketing.

:huh:UM, does that Cordoba come with “Fine Corinthian Leather�

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jun 2 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]264891[/snapback]</div>

Obviously you've never owned (or driven) a Studebaker. :lol:

 

I would be willing to bet that there are not Prius "trolls" on Ford and Hummer sites in the same manner as we get trolls from the "American" car companies here.

Poor babies are just lost and don't know how to save themselves. Considering that the E85 (where ever you might find some...I mean some states don't even have ANY sources!) is the only saving grace for your position you really have not get a leg to stand on. The decreased maintenance issues of the Prius also contribute to saving oil.

As mentioned in many replies here, E85 would be great IF it were readily available. A non-gas Hybrid will most likely come into play as soon as Toyota feels there is suffucuent infrastructure to support it.

Just keep your Expedition dude, obviously you have some major ego issues.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jun 2 2006, 06:06 PM) [snapback]264891[/snapback]</div>

OK, the Hitler reference was arguably the worst comment I've seen in this "Blind Allegiance to Imports run-on sentence of a thread", but this has to be very close as well. I'm assuming the statement 'never' goes back only as far as the oil embargo days (if I'm lucky) or maybe the early to mid 80's, as that's where most of the 'hate US products' facts come from, and I doubt anyone would/could argue with that era of American trash that was force-fed to a complacent public. The Big Three got used to being number one (and two and three respectively) and began (that's right BEGAN, which implies that they didn't always) dolling out garbage to a trusting American public. THAT'S when the imports made their charge. It was a combination of better fuel economy, better vehicle builds, and integration of new smog standards into the engine builds of those vehicles (vs. the U.S. automakers simply bolting-on smog pumps to pass; not an efficient way to produce vehicles with engine longevity.) that began to sway American consumers.

But their (US Maker's) arrogance came from BEING number one for so long. It was already mentioned in a previous post; Japanese was synonymous with crap, junk. And for GOOD REASON. For 60+ YEARS the American Auto Industry were PIONEERING just about every automotive advancement. Lexus is only just now using the Tucker patent for headlights that follow the driver. "Technology catches up to common sense." HUH? How about "Lexus catches up to American ingenuity from 1949!!!"

You cannot re-write history. This thread purports to be on some fact finding mission, but all I see (read) is anti-american rhetoric backed by statements like this one. Well I call B.S. Go back to the early years of Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, <insert fav. mag. here> and read the reviews of vehicles dating from 1910 to around 1970, give or take. This is simply a nonsense statement used to attack someone to illicit a reaction; tit for tat, I suppose. How OUTRAGEOUS is it to say that a 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air or a 1956 DeSoto Firesweep was not a great car. Name one Japanese car in 1956 that could win the Pike's Peak challenge and still be reliable for over 150,000 miles. (I rebuilt my 1959 361 BB motor after just over 316,000) Name one import of ANY brand in the 50's that was worth a darn outside of the racetrack. Ferrari's and Mercedes and Porsches were great on the track, sure, but were NOTORIOUS for being unreliable.

And as far as "planned obsolesence."? Yes, that's part of EVERY auto corp's marketing scheme, don't kid yourself. But in the 30's-60's no one was being 'forced' to buy a new car because it was obsolete, you could actually AFFORD to buy a new body style, and you WANTED a new body style back then. I'll concede by the 70's the Big Three WERE taking it to it's very extreme, but don't confuse that with over 60 years of solid, reliable, exciting, fun, pioneering vision that the big three brought to the world. If it weren't for those vehicles, the Japanese would never have had ideas to use (steal?) as they continue to do today. (Can anyone say Tundra Hemi; hmmm...) It's strange that companies that use so many American patents can't embrace the fact that both have their strengths and weaknesses.

My Two cents-- It's obvious I'm being ignored anyway, and I completely understand. Ignorance is a bigger target, and poor Expedition has the biggest bulls-eye.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desoto @ Jun 2 2006, 08:35 PM) [snapback]264927[/snapback]</div>

No, you're not being completely ignored, you make a lot of good points. And what people don't see happening is, Toyota is becoming just as complacent and arrogant as the Big 3 were. Look at the interior of the Prius, sure it has a lot of gadgets but it's complete crap otherwise with the plastic and seats. The build quality is worse than a '85 Grand Am with exposed gaps and mismatched materials. Now go compare that to a new Fusion or a Jetta. Toyota is starting to really slack.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desoto @ Jun 2 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]264927[/snapback]</div>

Time to quit living in the past folks. This is 2006, Toyota puts out quality products that appeal to a broad base of customers. American companies have failed to do the same.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Salsawonder @ Jun 2 2006, 07:45 PM) [snapback]264929[/snapback]</div>

I was simply responding to the comment that "The American Automobile industry had never produced very well made cars." so your comment (like so many others lately) simply has no bearing whatsoever on my statements. Please read my posts before responding to them.

In response to YOUR post, however, if American companies have failed to do the same, how is it that GM is the no. 2 car company in the world? Luck? Are they still living on the steam of the 60's and earlier? They must be doing something right, I suppose. Again, my arguments are NOT to take sides, but merely to illustrate a point. This entire thread has been consistant in one area: To generalize American car companies and their respective products. That's akin to a die-hard Ford guy making a sweeping statement such as "all imports are crap". It simply cannot be made. I would prefer to see specifics discussed as opposed to mudslinging.

BTW, Opel (GM owned/operated) once in the toilet is doing very well abroad. (re: 'broad base') As is Holden (also GM) as is many European-only models. GM has made a multitude of mistakes, no doubt, and don't seem to be coming out of the tailspin anytime soon. Chrysler, on the other hand, has had the Minivan category wrapped up for more than a decade now with their T&C, but I suppose that people with children are not really all that 'broad-based'. Their PT Cruiser is always a top pick and one of their lead sellers, and neither has just about anything they've inked (and produced) in the last 8 years. Ford's trucks, at least are still number one here, but I can't speak beyond that as I don't track them much....


Jonnycat26, as to the Prius- I do not know if it's necessarily complacency on the part of Toyota. They're gaining more momentum every year for a reason, and while I've never personally sat in a Prius, I've been in just about every other Toyota and (after about 1982) can't say that I've seen any 'short-cutting' done on their part, other than the usual use of "basic" style materials on their econo-class cars which is typical of any car company wanting to differentiate their baselines from their mid-luxury classes.

As I understand it, the Prius is one of the better value hybrids (I've seen the cost premiums on these things; ouch!) so could it be that they *had* to do what they did to keep within their (and consequently the consumer's) budget? Just curious.

Personally, I think Corporate Arrogance/Complaceny (in business) is cyclical: "How much can we get away with before we lose our customer base?" Yes, we all want to be treated like they care about us and take care of our needs, but remember: First and foremost they're in it for the money.

Keepin' it Real for my Countrymen.
-D

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desoto @ Jun 2 2006, 09:29 PM) [snapback]264960[/snapback]</div>

I firmly believe you're right. The Prius is really a 15K car with a drivetrain that tacked another 5K onto the price. It's really jarring if you buy the top of the line version, and find out the interior is worse than something that cost 10K less, like I did.

But having said that, the engine is a technological marvel. I do worry about the quality, since it's died twice and it rattles more than a tin full of pennies rolling down a hill.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 08:40 PM) [snapback]264965[/snapback]</div>

Nope; I had to pick a domestic for my counter-point, and it just happened to be Ford. I guess I could have put <insert domestic vehicle owner here> instead; lol.

 

There's controversy right now on whether the amount of energy that a unit of E85 yields is less than the amount put into producing it. You can hear about it at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5184874. Regardless of whether it's greater or not, it's still a very significant amount of energy input.

E85 is TOTALLY useless in states where it's not readily available. In the two states (FL and CA) where GM is offering the "$1.99 gas cap" some of them being on horrible guzzlers, there are NO publicly accessible E85 stations in FL and only 1 in CA!

http://www.e85fuel.com/database/locations....state=flFlorida
http://www.e85fuel.com/database/locations....te=CACalifornia

The closest publicly accessible E85 station to my home is 460 miles away. It makes no sense to drive 920 miles roundtrip to get E85. They sure as hell won't let me into places like Lawrence Livermore Labs where they do research on nuclear weapon stockpiles unless I work there.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]264490[/snapback]</div>

notice that's "north american" and not "american"...

i can't say it about my prius, but i can say it about every camry we've ever owned.

camry is built in KY and contains 75-80% AMERICAN parts, not just the "north american" including mexico copout.

i'd love to have bought a prius made in the US, but they aren't available. yet. and we weren't about to waste our hard earned money on a hybrid built here that we didn't want or like, just for the sake of buying american.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 06:40 PM) [snapback]264965[/snapback]</div>

It's hard to do sweeping generalities. I owned a Ford Probe for 15 years and my wife owns a Ford Windstar. I got a Toyota because it sold the Prius, not a Prius because it was made by Toyota.

 

HI all, I am happy to be part of this message board. I want to tell you that I own a Ford Escape Hybrid (16 months old) and a Toyota Prius 2006 ( 2 weeks). I love both of them! Earlier on this thread, there was a mention of the a/c on the Escape. Just to clear things up, the a/c CAN be run with the electric engine as long as it is on low power. A/c max and the defrost setting require use of the gas only engine. Mimi

 

I never understand peoples need to stamp the Prius with the "hybrid premium" tag. It is just a different car, like a diesel, like a Hummer, like any style that stands on its' own. There is no car comparable to the Prius.
If you don't want one, don't buy one. But don't pretend that "American" car companies are being progressive when they offer vehicles that can "use" E85 until they work to make the fuel readily accessible and cheap to produce.

 

Another problem w/the E85 lack of availability and usage (for now) is that it apparently has resulted in MORE oil consumption per http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features11.

"Manufacturers can receive a credit of up to 1.2 miles-per-gallon for each FFV produced that can be applied toward meeting their Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) requirements. Unfortunately, there is no corresponding incentive to encourage development of a refueling infrastructure, which brings us to the nearly nonexistent E85 refueling infrastructure today
...
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), extending these credits without expanding the availability of E85 actually increases petroleum consumption and greenhouse gas emissions. That’s because FFVs operating almost entirely on gasoline effectively decrease the CAFE for this FFV fleet by about 1.2 mpg. The credits given for the unused ethanol equates to somewhere between 20 to 56 million additional barrels of oil used annually."