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Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ryousideways, Apr 24, 2013.

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  1. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Btw, that reminds me... when I opened the pack this year, the module I had previously replaced (17) and one next to it (16) had a large white roundish white dried up acid like spot on and inbetween each module.

    17 was weak, 16 didn't seem to be as weak.

    18 was previously heat damaged and weak as well... I didn't replace 18 last time because I was broke and out of time.

    I scraped the white stuff off both modules to try and see where it was coming from but could not find the location of the leakage.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #1581 goitalone, Aug 23, 2016
  2. ryousideways

    ryousideways Member

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    Alrighty!

    I went down the line with my voltmeter using an old Coleman dc to ac power inverter to load test each battery. (I couldn't find a 55w light bulb)

    Every time I would flick the switch to turn on the power inverter you could hear the tiny cooling fan buzzing at a specific pitch. As I went down the line of batteries I was getting a pretty consistent 7.8 volts on each one so the pitch of the fan sounded the same.

    ...until I got to battery #10.

    As soon as I switch on the power inverter I could hear the fan was buzzing at a lower pitch. Sure enough 6.57 volts.

    I swapped out battery #10 last week and set my Hitec x4 chargers to the same settings as last time.

    Charge at 5 amps up to 7250mAhr
    Discharge at .7 aMhr down to 6 volts
    DSCH<CHG for 3 cycles.
    Other settings: I set the timer limit to 720 minute cut off. I also set the cool down period to 10 minutes.

    It honestly took me about 30 minutes to figure out how to program those damn things. I didn't write down any instructions from last time I did this. This time I was powering them both with a single computer power supply I bought from best buy and hacked up for a power source.

    Here is my discharge > charge cycle data this time around:


    gen-2-prius-battery-charge-discharge-cycles.png


    Battery #6 looks suspect again.

    Batteries #18, #22 through 26 also look like they are dragging.

    I am probably going to discharge > charge cycle all the batteries once again to try to get all of them to hit 7250mAh.

    The question is:

    I still have an extra replacement battery but I am not sure which one I should replace or I should I even bother replacing any?

    I was hoping to figure that out before starting the 4th cycle. Perhaps I should do another load test...
     
    #1582 ryousideways, Aug 24, 2016
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  3. Ruudh

    Ruudh Member

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    Hi "sideways". Your initial posts on this issue have been my inspiration. No matter what the doomsayers posted about your approach, you just cannot argue with the 61k mile additional battery life you achieved without worrying about all the things some of the experts said you needed to worry about or did wrong. Great initial post, great innovative effort on your part. All of us are richer and more informed because of you

    Terminologysuggestion for future posts: Battery is the whole assembly. The things you mentioned as reading low and needing to be replaced are referred to as modules, for Gen 2 there are (as you well know) 28 of these modules..

    Looking forward to your future posts.........Ruud
     
    #1583 Ruudh, Aug 27, 2016
  4. Ruudh

    Ruudh Member

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    Hi "sideways". Your initial posts on this issue have been my inspiration. No matter what the doomsayers posted about your approach, you just cannot argue with the 61k mile additional battery life you achieved without worrying about all the things some of the experts said you needed to worry about or did wrong. Great initial post, great innovative effort on your part. All of us are richer and more informed because of you

    Terminology suggestion for future posts: Battery is the whole assembly. The things you mentioned as reading low and needing to be replaced are referred to as modules, for Gen 2 there are (as you well know) 28 of these modules..

    Looking forward to your future posts.........Ruud
     
    #1584 Ruudh, Aug 27, 2016
  5. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You won't get argument from all long-timers here. We have to point it out on a regular basis.
     
    #1585 dolj, Aug 27, 2016
  6. chiu1040

    chiu1040 New Member

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    Need some guidance as to my next step. Got the warning lights and the typical codes. I bought a grid charger and discharger and charged and discharged three times. The problem wasn't fixed, so we load tested the individual modules using a halogen headlight bulb. One was obviously bad since it's voltage was 6.4 vs the 7.8 of all the others. Couldn't tell if any others were bad.

    I replaced the bad cell. The car drove for two days without any issues, and the warning lights came back on the third day.

    I bought a load tester from Harbor Freight and applied a 100 amp load for 8 seconds. I have no idea if that's too long or short. Anyway, I'm having a hard time finding another cell which might be bad. The voltage drops are all within a close range. There's some cells where the voltage drop may have been .03 more than the others, but it was so arbitrary based on how quickly we took off the load tester and applied the voltmeter.
     
    #1586 chiu1040, Aug 28, 2016
  7. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Did you charge/discharge the pack again AFTER the module replacement?

    Also, techstream displays individual module readings without cracking the pack open! (y)
     
    #1587 fotomoto, Aug 28, 2016
  8. chiu1040

    chiu1040 New Member

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    Yes, I did two cycles instead of three to save time.
     
    #1588 chiu1040, Aug 28, 2016
  9. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    chiu, you need to read the codes and subcodes with Techstream for the warning lights because module voltage and load capacity aren't the only things that can trigger DTCs. Modules leak, bus bar connections corrode, wiring snaps, etc.
     
    #1589 jadziasman, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
    goitalone likes this.
  10. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    I never saw individual module voltages on the techstream software, just block voltages how do you check individual module voltage's in techstream?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #1590 goitalone, Aug 28, 2016
  11. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Techstream reads module pairs in series (14 pairs). That is all the ECU knows about. It is enough to know (pair voltage and series resistance) if your battery is in good condition.

    JeffD
     
    #1591 jdenenberg, Aug 28, 2016
  12. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Not sure anyone would be interested or not, or how much of a possibility of corrosion being an issue on these things is, but to try and eliminate this potential corrosion issue, you can buy a set of new copper busbars along with brand new nuts for $40 OBO plus $15 shipping from one guy who sells them on eBay:

    Look at this on eBay Toyota HV Hybrid Battery New Copper Bus Bar Terminal Replacement | eBay

    He raised shipping from $3.40 to $14.85 from last week when I made my purchase, but I am sure you can get a best offer of around $15 like I did for a total of around $20 - $30?

    Another seller selling polished/refurbished ones, but his is $60 firm:

    Look at this on eBay Prius Copper Bus Bars Hybrid Battery Camry Lexus Nissan Toyota | eBay

    I am sure I could find the nuts at a hardware store, but I could not find any copper busbars anywhere else.

    Some of my nuts' flat edges were all eaten up as well as a module terminal or two partially stripped from a company who originally sold me a bad so called refurbished battery pack.

    They apparently stripped the heads of them going crazy with their electric drills.

    Because of this, I had one of my old module terminals strip out while trying to screw a nut back on.

    Also, one of my new modules' terminal snapped off because of a badly stripped nut without even applying any real torque on it.

    They also ruined my case cover by stripping a huge case bolt. It locked up while he was drilling crazily and tore the case so I had to rip the bolt through the ruined case cover plate and bend it back down with a hammer to make it fit flat. The there is no bolt there now, just a jagged hole.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #1592 goitalone, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  13. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Okay, thought I may have been missing something there for a second.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #1593 goitalone, Aug 28, 2016
  14. chiu1040

    chiu1040 New Member

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    OK, I've done a little bit of reading about the Techstream software. Where's a reliable place to buy the cable and software?
     
    #1594 chiu1040, Aug 28, 2016
  15. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Amazon.com: Fotga Newest V8.00.034 MINI VCI for TOYOTA TIS Techstream Diagnostic Cable &amp; Software Model: ZB031 Car/Vehicle Accessories/Parts: Cell Phones &amp; Accessories

    Doesn't matter what software version comes with it.

    There is a special way you have to install manually on PCs other than Windows Xp.

    Windows Vista - Windows 10 instructions are all pretty much the same if I remember correctly.

    EDIT:

    Here is the link to manual install instructions for operating systems later than XP:

    Techstream and MVCI on 64bit Windows 8.1 &#038; Win 10 works! | OBD2express.co.uk Official Blog



    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #1595 goitalone, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  16. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Gret to see you back and you certainly inspired alot of us to give it a go with your thread. Also pretty neat to use the fan's pitch as a quick gauge of battery voltage then confirm with a meter after. Just a quick comment but I would turn your timer limit off in your settings too, if you have limited it to 7250 mAh, then that's really all the limit you need when charging.
     
    #1596 MTL_hihy, Aug 29, 2016
  17. ryousideways

    ryousideways Member

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    Well it's been a few weeks but I finally got my Prius back on the road on Monday.

    My only hiccup this time around was the not having a large enough power source. I was hoping to find my original power source but that never happened. The new one I hacked up from best buy was rated for only 430 watts so if more than 7 modules were on a charge cycle at the same time it would trigger one or two of them to finish early.

    Initially I thought it was my modules were just more tired this time around, but when I looked at my data from the charge>discharge cycles I noticed a cut off pattern.

    So in the end I only ended up replacing two modules (#6 and #10)

    My rule of thumb was as long as a module was able to hit 7250mAh on a charge I would keep it.

    After I was satisfied with my cycles I used speaker wire to create a wiring harness to set the modules up in parallel. (All the positives touching positives and the negatives touching negatives.) Eventually all the modules leveled out to a solid 7.84 volts after letting it sit overnight.

    I put everything back together and have been driving it since.


    Here is my final discharge>charge data set. (Squinting may be required)

    prius-dchg-chg.jpg


    Also! Here are the settings I used for my Hitec X4 chargers. The instructions booklet Hitec
    gives you is absolute crap. Even having done this before I couldn't remember what to do.

    /******************
    This is kind of the "home" screen. You should see this when you power up the charger.

    Press the BATT. TYPE button to cycle through the menu until you get here. Press START to get to the program menu.
    IMG_7529.JPG
    **************/


    /******************
    Keep pressing the INC. or DEC. button until you see this screen.
    Press START to and the On/Off should start blinking. Use INC. or DEC. to select ON.

    Press START again and the mAh should start blinking. Use INC. or DEC. to choose your mAh cutoff.
    Press START to save.
    IMG_7534.JPG
    *************/

    /******************
    Next Press the INC. or DEC. to cycle until you reach the Safety timer area.
    Either turn it off or set it to to 720mins.
    IMG_7533.JPG
    **************/

    That should be it for the User Set Program settings. Everything else I left as default. I think...

    MOVING ON!

    /******************
    Press the BATT. TYPE button to cycle through the menu until you get here.
    IMG_7525.JPG
    **************/

    /******************
    Next press the START button to get to the NiMH screen menu.
    You can cycle through these options by hitting the INC. or DEC. button.

    When you hit this screen press the start button and the Number on the right will
    start blinking. Press INC. or DEC. to raise or lower the Amp charge flow.

    I set my to charge at 5.0Amps. When you are satisfied hit start to keep the setting.
    IMG_7526.JPG
    ****************/

    /******************
    Next we need to set the discharge rate. From the previous menu, hit the INC. or DEC. button
    until you see this screen. Press the START button to edit.

    The number on the left is how fast the module will be discharged in Amps.
    I set mine to 0.7A because that was the highest it could go.

    Hit START again and the Voltage setting on the right will start blinking.

    This is the setting that tells the charger to stop discharging when it gets to a specific voltage.

    I set mine to discharge down to 6.0V. Hit start to save the setting.
    IMG_7527.JPG
    **************************/

    /******************
    Next hit the INC. or DEC. button until you see this screen.

    This is the setting for what kind of cycle you want and how many cycles you want to run.
    Hit start and the DCHG>CHG will start blinking.
    Press INC. or DEC. to pick the one you want.
    I set mine for DCHG>CHG.
    Hit start and the number on the right will start blinking. This is the number of cycles the
    battery will be discharged and charged.
    I set mine to 3.
    IMG_7528.JPG
    To start the cycle, go to the above screen and press and hold the START button for 3 seconds.
    It should beep and show a screen that is discharging the module.
    *******/

    I think that's it.

    Here's to another 60K miles. I hope.
     
    #1597 ryousideways, Sep 1, 2016
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  18. chiu1040

    chiu1040 New Member

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    Posted a little further up about replacing a cell, driving fine for two days, and then getting codes. Did some load testing which was inconclusive. Bought the Techstream software and got a code that I knew wasn't valid. Said my orange plug wasn't installed, which was impossible because I could drive the car.

    Anyway, I started the car, and the warning lights mysteriously disappeared. Maybe in reinstalling the battery, I did something better than the first time I reinstalled the battery. I'll drive the car and hopefully the codes won't reappear after two days. This time I have the software to help me if I need it.

    ** Scratch that. Warning lights came back on. Will have to see what codes are coming up.
     
    #1598 chiu1040, Sep 3, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  19. coverturtle

    coverturtle New Member

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    What you observed is normal. Disconnecting the 12-Volt battery will reset the computer codes. After you restart the car and run it, stressing the hybrid battery, any codes which are still valid will show up soon but not right away.
     
    #1599 coverturtle, Sep 4, 2016
  20. chiu1040

    chiu1040 New Member

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    Got codes C1259, C1310, P3017, P0A0D, and P3000. I'm not getting P0A80 anymore.

    I'm puzzled by the fact that I've gotten different blocks to show as weak. The first time it was 9, and I changed it out. Then I got 9 and 13. After the load testing, I'm getting 7.
     
    #1600 chiu1040, Sep 4, 2016
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