Stop Driving for Mileage in HOV Lanes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stilview @ May 30 2006, 08:20 PM) [snapback]263074[/snapback]</div>

I might respectfully suggest to Stilview that he move closer to work so that he doesn't have a 120 mile commute that causes him stress when someone obeying the law prevents him from exceeding the speed limit by up to 30%.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samoan_ridah @ May 31 2006, 01:42 PM) [snapback]263475[/snapback]</div>

"Well that all I have to say about that" Forrest Gump

Well put, especially in South Florida, where I don't beleive you can get a ticket unless your car is on fire on the highway, it would be wise to steer clear from an HOV lane unless your prepared to drive over the posted speed limit. It is simply too dangerous for you or other drivers, and motorcycles that are flying around. Wether the other vehicles are right or wrong, you should use common sense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mssmith95 @ Jun 1 2006, 02:27 AM) [snapback]263908[/snapback]</div>

Look, you can justify drivign slowly however you want, but the fact of the matter is by driving slowly in the carpoool lane when other lanes are not congested at all, you are blocking traffic. And that is why non-hybrid drivers resent the fact that we have the HOV privilege. You think they give a rat's nice person whether or not we're driving solo? They resent the privilege because you guys are driving so slowly that you're slowing down the traffic behind you.

You driving slowly isn't going to save the lives of others. Far from it, all you're doing is forcing them to pass you, legally or illegally, and in doing so, endanger other drivers even more and cause them to resent us all.
I'd rather have a 80 mph speeder staying in the HOV lane then weaving in and out of the fastlane and HOV lane because some of us decide to be ignorant and drive 60 in the HOV lane.

When there is negligible traffic in the normal lanes, there is no reason for you to be driving 60 in the HOV lane.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mssmith95 @ May 31 2006, 10:51 PM) [snapback]263837[/snapback]</div>

&*(#$@ing Austin Politicians.
As if the people already going 80-85 need a legal justification.
At least it's only in west "middle-of-freakin'-nowhere" Texas... for now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mssmith95 @ May 31 2006, 08:51 PM) [snapback]263837[/snapback]</div>

Both comments are untrue. Many HOV lanes are not divided and there are no barriers to access. If you think the diamond means no one will dart over, you're wrong. Most HOV lanes are completely dependent on the traffic flow of the slug lanes. Also there is no fast/passing lane in the US. Even traffic bulletins use #1 lane, etc.

 

The fast lane is for people who wish to break the speed limit. It's as simple as that.

I won't get in the fast lane if I plan to drive under the speed limit, because that's just rude.

If I want to go fast, I expect people that are driving slowly in the fast lane to merge right and get out of my way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ May 31 2006, 10:32 AM) [snapback]263363[/snapback]</div>

Unless the flow of traffic is above the speed limit, because the speed limit is set artificially low, where you actually put yourself ain DANGER obeying the speed limit.

This is the case EVERYWHERE around the DC metro area. Since he was talking about I-66 and HOV lanes I assume he commutes into DC from somewhere in rural VA. The limit on the Beltway is 55, and traffic flows at 80 MPH in places, 95 north the limit is 65 and the flow is sometimes 85+. They don't even give people tickets here unless they're driving way outsde the flow of traffic because they understand the nature of trying to drive the speed limit in DC, its dangerous.

 

California laws require that slower moving vehicles yield to the right for faster vehicles on multi-lane hwys. The car pool lane is just another lane even though it may have restricted use and access. I am certain that you could be cited even thou traveling at or above the speed limit if impeding normal flow.

You might consider the section "Turning Out of Slow-Moving vehicles" as to how the law relates slow-moving vehicles to the speed limit (it doesn't).

---
quote Ca Veh code "21656. On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow-moving vehicle, including a passenger vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the vehicles following it to proceed. As used in this section a slow-moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place." (bold added)
---

While the section quoted does not directlyapply to a carpool lane, the situation being addressed is identical. You shouldn't feel obligated to wait for five cars to pile up behind you however.

It seems too simple, if you don't want to drive with the flow of traffic in the lane you are in, move to the right if you can.

 

More to the point in the California Vehicle Code:

Translation: irregardless of the speed limits, you can't block unless you're in the right lane.

 

isn't the whole point of getting HOV lane access to be able to get to work faster... key word there being FASTER (regardless of mpg?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hschuck @ Jun 1 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]264294[/snapback]</div>

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs19thru22.htm#maxspeed

Taken out of context and simply wrong. From Calirfornia Drivers Handbook, bold added:

Speed Limits

California has a “Basic Speed Law.†This law means you may never drive faster than is safe for current conditions. For example, if you are driving 45 mph in a 55 mph speed zone during a dense fog, you could be cited for driving “too fast for conditions.†You may never legally drive faster than the posted speed limit, even if you think it is safe to do so....

...Driving faster than the posted speed limit, or than is safe for current conditions, on any road is dangerous and illegal. High speed increases your stopping distance. The faster you go, the less time you have to avoid a hazard or accident. The force of a 60 mph crash isn’t just twice as great as a 30 mph crash, it’s four times as great!

The section calls out many conditions to justify going lower than the posted speed limit, but NONE to justify going over the limit....in case you missed it:

<div align="center">You may never legally drive faster than the posted speed limit, even if you think it is safe to do so.</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j24816 @ Jun 1 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]264361[/snapback]</div>

Another quote from the same drivers handbook "This handbook is only a summary of the laws and regulations. The Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), law enforcement, and courts follow the full and exact language of the California Vehicle Code."

The examples cited above from the California Vehicle Code (21654 and 21656) both state the law for situations which you a legally bound to either go-with-the-flow or move out of the way even if you are already at or above the speed limit.

Also note that using a large font does not make it true.

 

But what you have to understand is that there is law and then there is practical application. You're never going to get a ticket for driving too fast for conditions unless you're breaking the speed limit because thats impossible to enforce or to prove, they'd just be constantly walking people out of court after dismissing their cases. Plenty of things are illegal that are never enforced simply because the law makes no practical sense.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to put my life or the life of others around me in danger just so I can "obey the law" when the law is stupid and dangerous, thats irresponsible.

Thankfully, most police officers understand this. The police here are very fair when it comes to picking people out who are really creating danger instead of stopping people for driving the flow of traffic, regardless of what the speed limit is. I drive by speed traps all the time doing 20MPH over and the cop never moves, why? Because EVERYBODY around me is doing the same thing and they realize that I'm actually operating my vehicle in as safe a manner as is possible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jun 1 2006, 06:38 PM) [snapback]264392[/snapback]</div>

But, you are obeying the law (by driving with the traffic flow). It allows for you to drive with the flow of the traffic even if it is above the speed limit. (maybe the law is better than you give it credit for being)

The law doesn't require you to exceed the speed limit; it does require that you get out of the way of the normal flow of traffic (move to the right) or become part of it.

 

Where in the law does it tell you to drive the flow of traffic even if its above the speed limit? I seriously doubt that, that would be a huge contradiction.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jun 1 2006, 08:53 PM) [snapback]264482[/snapback]</div>

Errrrr, the code section that I posted? http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=20238&st=40&#

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hschuck @ Jun 1 2006, 06:29 PM) [snapback]264385[/snapback]</div>

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22349.htm

Vehicle Code

Maximum Speed Limit

22349. (a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour...






http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22356.htm

Vehicle Code


Increase of Freeway Speed Limit to 70 Miles Per Hour


22356. (a) Whenever the Department of Transportation, after consultation with the Department of the California Highway Patrol, determines upon the basis of an engineering and traffic survey on existing highway segments, or upon the basis of appropriate design standards and projected traffic volumes in the case of newly constructed highway segments, that a speed greater than 65 miles per hour would facilitate the orderly movement of vehicular traffic and would be reasonable and safe upon any state highway, or portion thereof, that is otherwise subject to a maximum speed limit of 65 miles per hour, the Department of Transportation, with the approval of the Department of the California Highway Patrol, may declare a higher maximum speed of 70 miles per hour for vehicles not subject to Section 22406, and shall cause appropriate signs to be erected giving notice thereof. The Department of Transportation shall only make a determination under this section that is fully consistent with, and in full compliance with, federal law.

(b ) No person shall drive a vehicle upon that highway at a speed greater than 70 miles per hour, as posted.






http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/interactive/tdrive/clc4answer.htm

From the sample drivers test answer sheet:

5. You are driving on a freeway posted for 65 MPH. The traffic is traveling at 70 MPH. You may legally drive:

65 MPH or less.

 

Look, we can all argue this until we are blue in the face.

Speed laws are a huge pain, because there is simple no way for law enforcement to police everyone...so it has become "acceptable" to drive above the limit, although there is never a guarantee you will not suddenly be pulled over.

However, the attitude that so many people feel that their "right" to speed outways others "right" to drive at the speed limit (but not below), seems very much like the huge arguments that used to go on about the "right" to smoke whenever and wherever.

I would not go as far as to say that speeding and smoking are in the same league, but in both cases the person who has the possibility of causing more harm to other innocent people (smoking = 2nd hand smoke, speeding = worse accidents and using more fuel causing us to all pay more) takes the "how dare you take this right away from me" attitude.

You see what has happened with smoking, especially in Southern California...and at one time, most people would have argued that smoking would be too hard to regulate...

Maybe, just maybe these types of dicsussions can open the eyes of some super speeders, and get everyone going around the same safe speeds (you know the ones that are actually posted because they "should" help to save lives and conserve some fuel).

Better to have everyone going 65 then some going 85 and some going 55. I think we all agree that the differnce in speeds is what causes problems. So if we can get the slow pokes to drive the limit and the speeders to drive a little slower then normal, BINGO, less issues!

I figure that eventually cars will have some sort of automatic speed control, where you program you destination and the vehicle takes over. This will be the only true way to manage the traffic issues in places like Los Angeles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mssmith95 @ Jun 2 2006, 02:44 AM) [snapback]264543[/snapback]</div>

On the contrary, I don't think the difference of speeds is what is causing all the problems. The problem is when drivers at slow speeds decide to hog the HOV lane. There is a reason why there are fast lanes and slow lanes on the highway. There are also signs posted in the HOV lanes, "Slower traffic move right".

You driving the 'speed limit' in the HOV or fast lanes when there isn't much traffic on the freeway isn't going to slow down the speedsters. All they are going to do is pass you, either when the HOV lanes open up or illegally when the lanes are still closed. Chances are, you'll get the finger from them too since you are slowing down traffic. Not to mention endangering the vehicles in the fastlane when an impatient driver behind you in the HOV lane decides to dart out in to the fast lane to pass you. I'm not saying its right or wrong for them to do it, but you don't see people getting pulled over for doing 80 when that is the speed of the road. You see pople getting pulled over for doing 80 and weaving in and out of traffic and the speed of traffic is slower. Personally, I stick to 65 in the middle lanes when i'm not in a hurry, but when I am in a hurry, I go into the HOV lanes because the HOV lanes, regardless of what the law may say, is significantly faster than the other lanes of traffic. I was once driving in the fast lane at 80 mph in my old mercedes diesel and didn't notice a CHP officer on a bike coming up from behind me in the HOV lane, he didn't even give me a look and went right past me, he was doing around 85. Why? because it is the speed of the road. And the most annoying thing that can happen is when you get into the HOV lane and some dimwit decides to drive 60-65 and take his time while blocking traffic. This isn't necessarily prius drivers, although often times it is.

Here is what I don't understand, when there isn't a lot of traffic as in, when the other lanes on the freeway are free flowing, why do you find the need to purposely drive 65 MPH in the HOV lane when you could do the exact same thing in the slow lanes and not draw the ire of all the other vehicles that you are blocking? Contrary to what many people on this board may think, we're still a significant minority in the general traffic and commuting population. We have to coexist with our fellow non-hybrid drivers.

I saw a prius in the parking lot at work the other day, his engine hood had a dent in it like someone kicked it. There was no damage on the bumper so that leads me to belieeve someone kicked it or took a brick to it. It was about the width of a foot, and the driver side was keyed, it was about six inches long. Granted, I do not know who the driver is or what he might have done, but could this be a case of prius hate? the person who vandalized the car was caught behind one too many prii in the HOV lanes? I don't think we can rule out that as a possibility.

Please do us all a favor, if you want to drive slowly, and it is well within your rights to do so, do it in the right lanes so that you are not blocking others who wish to drive faster. We may be more environmentally consicous and forward thinking than the H2 driver doing 85, but that doesn't mean we're more entitled to the road than they are. God knows what they might do to my prius sitting vulnerably by itself in the parking lot. one day after getting constantly slowed down by self-righteous prius drivers in the HOV lane.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigj3347 @ Jun 2 2006, 12:30 AM) [snapback]264549[/snapback]</div>

That sentence is also true when you substitute "left" for "HOV".

Vehicles driven at differering speeds can safely coexist on the same freeway as long as drivers don't block faster vehicles by driving in the wrong lane. If you've become a traffic block by intentionally driving slower than the cars behind you wish to drive, you're just creating a more unsafe driving situation. That makes you a poor driver and an a**hole for intentionally creating a dangerous situation, or a moron for being unaware of the situation you've created. It's almost unbelievable that some people think they have the right to control how fast other people drive, and that it's ok to create dangerous situations when attempting to enforce the speed they want others to drive (I wouldn't mind curing any of you of this with a few whacks from a lug wrench). And it is just an attempt, because as soon as it's safe (or sometimes before), that impatient driver behind you is going to get around you. By just driving in the correct lane, people can drive on the same freeway at speeds varying from 55mph to 85mph or more without creating unnecessarily dangerous situations.

Maybe you could get one of these for your car so people would know you're not part of the problem. They're pretty obnoxious though. I'll admit it, I actually had one of these on my car when I was in my very early 20s.