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Which affects fuel economy so much?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by ppnuwan, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    Recently bought 2010 Prius (I love Prius cars, this is my third Prius) and currently having really bad mileage despite of changing oil and filter (used premium stuff, full synthetic 5W-40 oil etc.) and using only 98 Octane fuel, I still get only 600 km out of 35 l tank (5.8 L/100 km here in Australia, 40 mpg in US). I used to have Gen 2 Prius which I loved so much and it gave me 4.6 L/100 km (52 mpg) and this Gen 3 model is supposed to be better...! I know how to drive a Prius (which is why I got excellent mileage records for my old model) but this thing doesn't return me better results.. Engine sound is normal and everything else looks and feels normal about the car except for the economy. I need your guys advise on possible courses..

    1) Fuel pump issue?
    2) Injector blockage? (I used injector cleaners couple of times already, doesn't seem to help)
    3) Air filter? (I have yet to check this)
    4) Automatic fluid? (Car has only done 70,000 km, do we need to change Automatic fluid? I changed my old Prius oil only after 230,000 km and it ran like a dream even without changing oil)
    5) Auxiliary battery? (Checked Voltage and it is around 12V)
    6) Traction battery? (No sudden discharging of this, no irregular/sudden charging cycles, so I presume it's performing alright)
    7) Spark plugs? (I have yet to check)

    I don't know what else could it be.. Even if it's one of above things, how come it would be that bad? (Unless it's combination of many issues to which I'm afraid..!)
    Waiting for your valuable feedback guys...
    Note: It's the Winter I should tell you, also the tyres are not particularly fuel saving/low resistance ones
    (Unfortunate thing is, I always remember my good old 2nd Gen Prius, which obviously performed much better even in Winter..)
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I wouldn't hesitate to change the transaxle fluid, much sooner is optimum imho, and then stretch the interval. The 5W40 motor oil might be a factor, but maybe not that significant? Can you measure the 12 voltage more accurately, to one decimal place?
     
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  3. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    How many miles on her? What type of maintenance records are available? Do you know if the pcv valve has been changed?
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The engine oil is definitely a problem as it should be 0-20W.

    I would recommend changing the transaxle oil and capturing a sample, about half a liter in a clean, dry, polycarbonate water bottle. Inspect it for odor and discoloration.

    Check the wheel alignment. In the USA there have been used cars whose 'repair' after an accident was less than perfect. A permanent, bend in the body or misaligned wheels can rob mileage.

    After the wheel alignment, fully inflate your tires to the maximum sidewall. If a policeman asks, tell him our are transporting some bags of concrete and need to handle the maximum weight.

    The car is sensitive to warm-up so for the first 2-3 km, try to keep the speed in the 30 km/h range. Then remember there is a hybrid-threshold speed of ~67 km/h. Under this speed, usually 5-10 km/h, and the car can easily turn off the engine for high mileage. Above this speed and the car does OK but not quite as good.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. ALS

    ALS Active Member

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    A/C and heat usage affects fuel mileage more than most owners assume.
    Ditto what Bob said dump that 5W40 and go back to 0W20 and check your alignment.
    I know with my short trips and A/C usage in my 2010 III I'm assured a drop of at least 10 mpg in fuel mileage.
    Think of that being 4.7 L/100km increasing to 5.9 L/100km.
     
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  6. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    Thanks for your reply mate, I honestly don't think 5W40 would be an issue in Australian climate.. In fact I used to have the exact same oil in my previous Prius and got fantastic results. I trust this particular oil so much to a point that it can not possibly be the factor..
    Battery voltage,
    after 3 days idle it came 11.8
    5 mins after start it came 12.1
    after driving it came 12.2
    I'm going to do a ATF change as you advised and see if that helps..
     
  7. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    Thanks for your reply mate..
    She's got 73,000 km (about 45,000 miles)
    No maintenance record at all so I'm not sure about PCV valve change.. However I do know, the odometer is accurate as I did a history check on the car.
     
  8. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    Thanks for your reply mate..
    Yes, I'm going to do ATF change ASAP..
    About wheel alignment, actually it's pretty bad. You got all facts right, this car had been in an accident and repaired later. As it can be expected, the wheel alignment was odd and I noticed this during my first drive.. I should do this as priority..
    Also the rear wheels are two different type of tyres, I believe that could be affecting fuel economy as well..
    About the warm up things etc.. I have had Prius cars for quite sometimes now and I think I know how to drive them and how to achieve high mileage.. But this particular car doesn't seem to respond well enough..
     
  9. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    As I mentioned earlier, I don't think this drop in economy has got anything to do with 5w-40 oil which I have always used in my previous Prius cars (and have had excellent performance both pick up and economy wise).
    You've got a good point for AC though.. AC is on full time however AC was not a huge factor with my previous Prius.. (2nd Gen)
    Ex: with AC 4.8L/100 km, without AC 4.4L/100 km
    Anyways, I'll try driving without AC just for the sake of checking this..
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    That's not good. A healthy battery, after 3 days idle, you'd expect to see 12.5 minimum. There's some parasitic draw inherent in an installed battery, sitting for a few days will drop it, but 11.8 is near-dead.

    You could get it load tested, and try charging. If it's been in the car 4 years or more I'd just replace it.
     
    #10 Mendel Leisk, Aug 17, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, you need a new battery.
     
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  12. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Although that doesn't fully explain the drop, you could certainly reduce fuel consumption with a less viscous choice of engine oil, other things being equal.
     
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  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I'd go with what @bisco and "@Mendel Leisk" said. A bad 12v accessory battery will suck off a lot of kWh from the traction battery forcing the ICE to keep running to keep the traction battery charged.


    Unsupervised!
     
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  14. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    Thanks a lot for your valuable answer.. While I do believe it could be one of the factors, I still can't believe it's causing 10 mpg drop which is simply not factual. Let me explain why I think so.
    12V battery gets charged within first 10 km or so of driving so first 5 or 10 minutes of driving a drastic drop in mpg is totally understandable due to extra effort from traction battery/engine to charge the 12v battery to it's full capacity (and getting car's AC to the optimum temperature by running engine more as it's the winter).
    But after 12V gets it's optimum voltage (say 12.8 which I'm pretty sure it's effortlessly maintains until the end of the trip as drop in voltage is not significant during driving) and car's AC is maintained in fairly insulated interior, one can expect a better mileage afterwards.. Right?
    But when I turned on the 5 min consumption graph on the screen, it's still showing above 5.5 L/100 km consistent fuel consumption throughout the journey even if I drove 100 km.. (With my previous Prius, the first two bars would go above 5 and then usually drops to 4.0 range when cruising at around 70-80 km/h optimum speed for Prius) But this car doesn't do that which is pretty strange.. Which is why I think it's neither AC nor 12V battery which causes the issue.. It could well be ATF or some other serious issue that I can't simply figure out.. Any ideas guys?
     
  15. Vman455

    Vman455 Senior Member

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    You can't look for one single thing causing the poor mileage, because it's more likely to be a combination of factors. Heavier 5W-40 oil is just one factor; change to 0W-20, which is what Toyota specs for your Prius C (there's a Prius C-specific forum here, by the way, which might be worth looking through). A dying 12V battery is another factor; replace with a new battery. Check your driving habits. Make sure the alignment is good, especially since it's a rebuild. The Prius C generates higher aerodynamic drag than the Gen 2, that's another factor. Small things add up.
     
  16. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    First the 12V battery should be in the 13V+ range based on data from my car. If the car's computer sees the 12V voltage as past a tripping point it will happily keep the DC/DC converter running to try and charge it because the car thinks the battery needs a charge. The problem with this whole picture is as your 12V battery dies, the internal resistance goes up making it quite a bit harder to keep the 12V charged. Thus making your DC/DC converter turn up the voltage and the amperage. The computer, which runs off of the 12V, is now in extra drive mode all the time because it thinks there's some additional load on the 12V like headlights, etc. so it has to monitor the situation more. And you are running your A/C at the same time so you're getting a double whammy. So now the computer is making the ICE run just a little bit higher to keep the taction battery charged to compensate for the extra 12V load, but not enough so you would notice it.


    Unsupervised!
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    did you check the air filter yet? i think you need to complete the repairs on problems that you've already identified. wheel alignment, tyres, 12v and etc. why keep looking for something less obvious until those are fixed?
    then put a tank on her and calculate your mileage at the pump.
     
  18. ppnuwan

    ppnuwan Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reply mate... I also think it's a combination of factors.. By the way, I have two Prius Cars, Prius C and Prius 3rd Gen and this query is for the 3rd gen Prius - I don't know how to add both cars under my profile.. LOL (I used to have Prius 2nd gen to which I always used 5w-40 oils and had excellent fuel economy).
    I'll change the air filter first and drive for a week to see if that does any difference, then I'll change the battery.. I'll update you guys accordingly..
     
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  19. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    Make sure you have low rolling resistance tires. It really does make a difference! When I first got my 2012 Prius liftback it has cheap non LRR tires and on my 500 mile road trip home it at 72 MPH it only got in the low 40's. I changes to some Energy saver A/S tires and could than get 50 pretty easy. Also, inflate them to 40 psi!
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Not sure what that means. Checking battery voltage with a multi-meter, car off, rested overnight, you will NEVER see 13 volts. 12.8 would be champion, 12.6 I'd take without complaint.
     
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