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Intermittent Red Triangle of Doom... (2007 Prius)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by dfpineau, Aug 10, 2016.

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  1. dfpineau

    dfpineau Junior Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tallahassee
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    PPH: (Possibly Pertinent History)

    Original Hybrid battery failed April 2015.
    1st rebuilt (Dorman) battery installed April 15 - Failed July 2015.
    2nd rebuilt (Dorman) battery installed July 2015 - Failed October 2015.
    3rd OEM (Toyota) battery installed October 2015.
    Front end alignment (stay with me) May 2016.
    Intermittent Red Triangle of Doom June 2016-present.
    Installed Camber kit (yesterday...)

    After I realized that I could duplicate the conditions for the triangle appearing/disappearing (brake/veer left to make it come on, accelerate/veer right to make it go away), I relaxed on the urgency of getting this addressed. After all - if the triangle goes away, there really isn't much of an enduring problem (I thought).

    Brought the Prius to Legacy Toyota (Tallahassee, FL - BTW, I have only good things to say about this Toyota dealership) and the mechanic and I replicated the conditions while the Toyota diagnostic computer was attached.

    The codes that were stored prior to our road-test:
    P0A0F - Engine failed to start (yes - I do recall having to jump-start the battery back in July)
    P0420 - Catalytic Converter (no way am I paying close to $2,000 for this - so dismiss that one)
    P3190 - Poor engine power
    C0200 - Right and left speed sensors reading 0 MPH at 30MPH
    C0205 - Left reading zero
    C2168 Abnormal Temp Inside
    B1421 - Solar Sensor Normal Code.

    Mechanic noticed I had excessive camber and asked if I had recently had it aligned (yes - see May 2016 note above)

    Mechanic determined that the ECM was triggered by faulting steering angle/yaw signals. These weren't coded because the red triangle of doom only activates when a condition persists. If the condition is erratic or "one-off" and does not reappear when the system tries to reconfirm, no code is given.

    I made a command decision to forego spending BIG dollars to replace costly computer equipment after I learned that provided the red triangle does NOT stay on, there really is no imminent danger - and that "actual" trouble would cause the triangle to persist - so I would be able to act accordingly.

    However... - the Mechanic did suggest I return to where I had my alignment (I have a lifetime deal with SunTire on N. Monroe, Tallahassee, FL) and have them reset and adjust to correct camber aberration.

    I went to SunTire - they informed me that the Prius did not have Camber adjustment bolts - but that I could install them ($150ish). Reasonable price to pay for addressing the triangle.

    Today though... - the triangle is appearing more frequently, and with less cause-range, than it did a few days ago.

    So - bottom line - does anyone out there relate to this condition? - any suggestions? - Anything? - Thanks in advance.
     
    #1 dfpineau, Aug 10, 2016
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Why? Are you doing a lot of short trips? Or sitting unused for days at a time? How old is the 12v? What is the resting voltage and with car in ACC mode?

    Yet another case of poor performance from the Dorman batts.
     
    #2 fotomoto, Aug 10, 2016
  3. dfpineau

    dfpineau Junior Member

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    II
    I do want to clarify that I have an OEM battery installed (yeah - I'm the lucky guy with a 2007 Prius and a brand new Toyota hybrid battery) today.

    I drive primarily around town - infrequently on the interstate.

    the most it will be unused would be 3 days.

    It is the third 12v battery since new. this one is only a year old.

    Not sure about the resting voltage specifics. Yesterday, I did observe it fluctuating between 8 and 11
     
    #3 dfpineau, Aug 10, 2016
  4. dfpineau

    dfpineau Junior Member

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    oh - the reason it failed to start was likely because I left the trunk agap over night and the interior lights likely sapped the power.
     
    #4 dfpineau, Aug 10, 2016
  5. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Those numbers can't be right.

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 fotomoto, Aug 10, 2016
  6. dfpineau

    dfpineau Junior Member

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    Yep - I suppose you're right.

    However - I'm not experiencing an electrical problem, according to Toyota. I'm experiencing a "triangle of doom comes on when the car pitches/yaws a certain way" problem...

    Most perplexing...
     
    #6 dfpineau, Aug 10, 2016
  7. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Interesting, never seen this one before. Sorry I can't help, but I am curious to see what the resolution is.
     
    #7 jeff652, Aug 10, 2016
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    It's been shown that a questionable 12v can throw seemingly unrelated codes. It requires zero or very little $$$ to verify it's health so I would suggest doing that first. Letting one go completely dead can sometimes kill a 12v or severely harm it. Rule it out first.
     
    #8 fotomoto, Aug 10, 2016
    jeff652 likes this.
  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Have you checked your oil level to make sure it's not low? That would cause intermittent triangle problems
     
    #9 JC91006, Aug 10, 2016
    strawbrad likes this.
  10. M in KC

    M in KC Active Member

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    ^ what he said.
     
    #10 M in KC, Aug 10, 2016
    strawbrad likes this.
  11. grhybrid

    grhybrid Junior Member

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    First, check your oil level. Second, address the abs and tpms codes. The C0200 and C0205 are dealing with the lf and rf speed sensors. The skid control ecu is fairly easy to access and I think a used one could be installed if it was determined to be bad. The speed sensors are a breeze to replace. The C2168 code is for temp inside a tire out of range. If tire pressures are correct, possibly the tpms sensor is failing. The techstream scanner at the dealer and any well equipped shop could diag these concerns in short order.
     
    #11 grhybrid, Aug 10, 2016
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  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Odometer reading of vehicle?

    I agree that the engine oil level should be checked.

    Regarding the failed catalytic converter, it is possible to have an aftermarket catalytic converter installed, check with local muffler shops. That might cost $500 or less installed.

    Which ECU did the Toyota dealer mechanic recommend replacing? Used ECUs can be purchased very inexpensively on eBay since the failure rate is low relative to the scrap rate of totaled vehicles.
     
    #12 Patrick Wong, Aug 11, 2016
  13. dfpineau

    dfpineau Junior Member

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    II
    Have you checked your oil level to make sure it's not low? - I'm going to check the oil today - thanks.

    Odometer reading of vehicle? - 129,346

    Regarding the failed catalytic converter, it is possible to have an aftermarket catalytic converter installed, check with local muffler shops. That might cost $500 or less installed. - Didn't know that. thanks!

    Which ECU did the Toyota dealer mechanic recommend replacing? Used ECUs can be purchased very inexpensively on eBay since the failure rate is low relative to the scrap rate of totaled vehicles. He said it was reading drive angle / yaw readings incorrectly - but I'll find out which specific ECU. Thanks again.
     
    #13 dfpineau, Aug 11, 2016
  14. dfpineau

    dfpineau Junior Member

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    Well - I just can't believe it.

    I'll preface by saying that I irresponsibly went 9,000 miles without changing the oil (give or take a couple hundred (mostly give).

    They oil change place told me that the oil was sludgy.

    So - after fresh 5-W30, I am happy to report that I can't possibly make the red triangle of doom come on.

    Thanks, folks! - the oil levels didn't occur to Toyota, or to another auto mechanic I talked to locally. Thanks, JC91006, GRHybrid and Patrick Wong for nailing the oil culprit!

    I also got good stuff for future use.

    The $2,500 PriusChat member fee that I invested in back in 2009 sure has paid off!

    heehee!!!!
     
    #14 dfpineau, Aug 11, 2016
    jeff652 likes this.
  15. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    I'm sure Danny will find that reassuring.
     
    #15 DonDNH, Aug 11, 2016
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