E85 Prius in 2008?

I wonder if Toyota will also produce some sort of aftermarket conversion kit so that we can modify our Prii.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob Allen @ Apr 20 2006, 04:30 PM) [snapback]242777[/snapback]</div>

Not likely... you'd have to replace the fuel lines and reprogram the ECU. Not to mention the bladder would probably have to go, but I think most of us would gladly de-bladder our Priuses if we could.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 20 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]242801[/snapback]</div>

I'll drink to that. That's the only thing that I don't like about the car. I still don't understand the obsession with E85. First we should focus on replacing MTBE with E10. Right now we're struggling to do that. Once we've cleared that hurdle we should focus on E15, E20 and beyond.

WOOHOO, that was my 1000th post!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 20 2006, 04:19 PM) [snapback]242801[/snapback]</div>

do not know about that. I've been running a 50/50 mix of E85 and gasoline for about a year; no problems. Tests on an 03 Prius indicated that it works fine on straight E85 (i.e. maintained stochiometric combustion) although you get an error light after a while indicating that the mixture has been set very rich (which you'd expect.) Keep in mind all Priuses are designed to run on E10, so they have at least considered resistance to ethanol.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billvon @ May 5 2006, 03:57 AM) [snapback]249862[/snapback]</div>

My hope is that when Ethanol becomes more available, Toyota will at least publish some sort of guideline about what you can or can't do regarding Ethanol in, what will be by then, older Prii.

Those of you who are against the bladder in the Prius should consider the very real safety benefit it offers. Because it collapses slowly with fuel drain, there is no air/fuel mix trapped inside which could cause an explosion. Race cars use it for that reason.

 

I just purchased a 2006 Prius (yesterday, in fact). I'd probally buy a new one in 2008 if it was e85. That is my number 2 item on my future Prius wish list. (number one would be that the NAV could download traffic conditions and construction areas... but I wouldn't buy a new Prius just for that)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob Allen @ May 4 2006, 03:31 PM) [snapback]249918[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for that info. I just quit worrying about filling it up in any certain way. I am happy with the 45+/- that I get on her. When my daughter and her husband return from Italy in October 2008 I hope they stick to the plan for buying my old Prius so that I can have a(n altruistic) reason for buying a new souped up version!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob Allen @ May 4 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]249918[/snapback]</div>

Thanks! I didn't know this. Now I can explain to my parents and friends who've been asking "what do you mean, the gas tank is a bladder?"

 

quick question, isn't the fact that E85 is mostly ethanol means that it'll reduce mileage?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MikeSF @ May 27 2006, 12:51 PM) [snapback]261792[/snapback]</div>

Yes

Ethanol has less energy per gallon that Gasoline

Fuel - Btu/Gallon - Ratio of Energy Content Compared to Gasoline

Diesel - 129,000 - 0.89 TO 1
Gasoline - 115,400 - 1.00 TO 1
E85 - 105,545 - 1.09 TO 1
Propane - 84,000 - 1.40 TO 1
Ethanol (E100) - 75,000 - 1.54 TO 1
LNG - 73,500 - 1.57 TO 1
M85 - 65,350 - 1.77 TO 1
Methanol (M100) - 56,500 - 2.04 TO 1
CNG@5,845psi - 56,500 - 2.04 TO 1
Liquid Hydrogen - 34,000 - 3.39 TO 1
CNG@3,000psi - 29,000 - 3.98 TO 1
Hydrogen@3,000psi - 9,667 - 11.94 TO 1

 

Testing of E 85 in my 07 Results with real world driving.

Gas average 44-48mpg

E85 average of 35mpg one tank.

The Engine comes on more using the e85 as expected, I noticed a slight performance gain as well. The math came out right at about a 30% MPG loss.

The MPG change is quite a bit but it speaks highly of the efficiency of the prius. 35mpg on E85 is nothing to sneeze at!

 

I just don't understand the desire to convert

Natural gas-->Fertilizer-->Corn-->Ethanol

To get less mileage and potentially more hazardous emissions.

Ah right. Big oil still gets to sell the natural gas and get some of the agricultural subsidies as well....

 

The Detroit 3 (formerly Big 3) like E85 fro two reasons:
1. It only costs about $100 for them to make the conversion.
2. It will never happen in the US until we use something besides corn to make our Ethanol and Detroit dislikes change. Our 5% blend already takes 20% of our corn. Corn-based ethanol requires 70 units of energy (mainly from natural gas) to produce 100 units of Ethanol-energy.

 

no energy system is perfect of course. a more renewable source would be to make bio diesel from whale fat but no one is doing it!
Whales are
Renewable.
Feed of algae that grows from solar power.
and if processed via pyrolysis would generate fuel and electricity
Light from whale fat used to light homes until they invented the light bulb.
one problem, if 1/10th of 1% of our fuel needs now came from whales they would be extinct in about a year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ May 27 2006, 07:19 PM) [snapback]261881[/snapback]</div>

Using the 15% to 85% ratio, I come up with 80.7 BTU/Gallon for E85, or about 70% of the energy density of gasoline.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob Allen @ May 4 2006, 06:31 PM) [snapback]249918[/snapback]</div>

Hope & Ethanol. A contradiction in terms? Most grain fuel products ares a giant scam ... taking tons of water / chem fertalizer / pumping / electric / fermentation energy, only to end up with a product that gets worse mileage. There are articles comming out now regarding other toxin/byproducts from grain fuel as well. The worst thing about Hydrogen cars, grain fuels, and the like (IMO) is that they take away research dollars that could best be spent on making a 'Volt' type car a reality.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fan-atic @ Apr 28 2007, 09:37 AM) [snapback]431695[/snapback]</div>

Still that makes it a net increase in energy, no?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MikeSF @ Apr 28 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]431713[/snapback]</div>

Looking at the reports on ethanol energy balance I think the concensus is that its too close to 1:1 to tell otherwise.