From Edmunds Straightline Blog today... Honda to launch diesel Odyssey & Acura MDX in US http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/ This is a good move from Honda, IMO. Seeing the opportunity to to be first in line to take advantage of the likely availability of ULSD Honda brings it to where economy really hits home and generates excitement, in Mom's control. Here is a real battle shaping up and Honda has sent off the first volley. Most will concede that the Odyssey and Sienna are No's 1 & 2 in this very visible and prestigious vehicle segment with the Caravan a close third. Honda is taking the lead to make Mom happy which if it works may spread positive impressions of Honda like wildfire. As with the Gen2 Prius positive impression by word of mouth is a wonderful means of promotion. Honda has to do something dramatic quickly for two reasons: The Accord hybrid is ehh? at best so Honda has to quickly recapture some of the prestige of being at the forefront of conservation and concern for the environment and our resources. This is a good way to get there. The new Sienna is due out about the same time as the Honda diesel and it's likely that the Sienna will have a hybrid option, IMO. As shown by the HAH, larger-vehicle hybrids are not Honda's specialty. The HCH and HFH are likely to continue to be winners but what should Honda do to fight against a new Sienna hybrid and a Tundra hybrid which are likely to be announced at the end of this year. They cannot let Toyota continue to garner all the press, ( ditto for Toyota: Honda announced two plants, Toyota announces 10 new plants ). In the Odyssey Honda has chosen a key vehicle which is frankly much more visible and influential than either a Jetta or a Liberty and put themselves on the line to convince Mom that choosing the diesel Odyssey is good for her family - less fuel costs mean more money for the family. Now the education process has to begin. If Honda with it's great rep and the great vibes from the Odyssey, in general, can pull this off then diesels will be off and running. I'd bet on it. It will be a good contest if it's a Honda diesel Odyssey (HDO?) vs a Toyota Sienna Hybrid (TSH).
Maybe MOM might be concerned with some inherent diesel issues Diesel exhaust contains small particles and vapors that can include more than 40 toxic air contaminants, including cancer-causing substances. Children are particularly vulnerable to the harmful impacts of air pollution. In polluted areas, kids are more likely to suffer from asthma and hospitalizations. Air pollution can cause deficits in lung growth similar to second hand smoke exposure.
So, my BIG question is...does this "ultra low sulphur" diesel really address the pollution problem? I could care less if diesel has more energy, less cost to refine, etc than gasoline....if it's environmentally unhelathy, what's the point? If Toyota was really after low emissions 1st with MPG a bonus, then why didn't /haven't they "seen the light" and built a diesel hybrid? I just don't think diesel will sell in this country. Too much negativity. Even with the ultra-low sulphur. I absolutely love the clean emissions from my Prius. I dread even being 2 lanes away from ANY diesel, big or small. And now that summer is here and windows are down...wow...our roads/cars stink! I'm amazed and saddened at the same time. And I live in a smaller city with some of the 'best' air in the country.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 26 2006, 11:43 AM) [snapback]261316[/snapback]</div> Actually, yes... diesel can be clean and is going to have to be clean starting next year. Even now diesel is cleaner than a gas in some respects, and when the new emissions requirements come into play, it's only going to get more competitive. Aso for diesel not selling, don't tell VW or Mercedes. VW sells out of all the diesels they import each year. I'm not sure how Merc does, probably not quite as well given the cost, but they seem popular around here. And Toyota does have diesel engines overseas. I just don't think they're very good. One review of a Lexus diesel compared it to a '73 Mercedes diesel (which is not a good comparison for the Lexus). In more than a few respects, Toyota doesn't have the engineering prowess for engines that Honda does.
In the USA, VW recently discontinued their Diesel Touareg and their Diesel Passat, leaving only the Jetta/Rabbit option. Mercedes' only diesel is the E320 CDI. Many consumers like them, but many also do not. Even fueling up a Diesel is a stinky process. Nate
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 26 2006, 12:23 PM) [snapback]261340[/snapback]</div> The diesel Passat is alive and well... the Passat was redesigned last year and the diesel version won't make it here until next year. As for the Touareg, they may as well cancel the whole thing. I think they realized they made a mistake by whoring themselves out with the Tundra... er... Sequoia... er... 4 Runner... er... Touareg. That's the one I meant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 26 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]261321[/snapback]</div> VW and Mercedes don't have to add the letter D on the trunk to indicate it's a diesel - just look at all the black particulates that accumulate on the car body near the exhaust. :blink: Prius owners: keep windows closed, vents on recirculate!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 26 2006, 08:51 AM) [snapback]261321[/snapback]</div> I do not know.. Toyota's DTD diesel engine has won awards so has Honda's CTD-i diesel engine. I'm assuming you're talking about the IS200d as it's the first and only Lexus diesel. Saw a review on Fifth Gear and it seemed okay.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 26 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]261321[/snapback]</div> And it will achieve the minimum to become an everyday choice. But I have yet to see a single word about one actually being competitive. None are planned that achieve a SULEV or PZEV emission rating. So yes, they will be clean, but only enough to meet the basic requirements. Status quo won't reduce smog problems. When a diesel is delivered that has a rating of SULEV or PZEV, then it can get a knod of approval. Until then, it's just part of the old-school crowd. Remember, we know for a fact that smog reduction is possible. But it costs extra, impairs the efficiency a little bit, and no automaker is planing to offer that as an option. So there's no sense getting excited about it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 26 2006, 11:51 AM) [snapback]261321[/snapback]</div> Toyota actually has pretty good diesel. Check out D4-D and D-CAT sold with Avensis and Corolla. They are selling very well and Toyota even had to increase their production output. What if, by 2009, Toyota brings Sienna HSD (gas) and the battle between Gas-electric hybrid and Diesel will meet head on. It will be interesting to see. Clean Diesel do add a few thousand $ for hardware and next gen HSD will cost about the same, if not less. I think moms are going to pick the cleaner, smoother, more responsive and efficient HSD. Remember, Odyssey has to be automatic which will further reduce the efficiency. There is also a possibility that Toyota will make Sienna HSD with Diesel. Dennis
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ May 27 2006, 12:30 PM) [snapback]261783[/snapback]</div> They may be workable and functional, but they're probably not in line with what people think a Lexus should be offering. From what I've read, the Honda diesel in the Accord and the VW diesels (not the ones offered here) are some of the best to drive. I do think that with time, Toyota will produce a decent diesel. They're going to have to if they want to compete in the high end in Europe.
I drove around Europe last summer in a Renault Megane. It wasn't until drove over 200 KM and noticed that the gas gauge hadn't moved that i realized it was a diesel. No extra noise or smell. No black exhaust marks by the muffler. They have drastically improved the diesels since I last drove one in the 80s. The gas pumps thoroughly sealed around the filler noozle so their wasn't any objectionable odor when I filled the tank. Overall I got about 48 MPG and was driving at highway speeds much of the time. If I could have brought it home with me I would have. My wife would then drive the Prius and I would have been very happy in the Renault. Then once the warranty was over I would have converted it to a grease car. I look forward to seeing how Honda and Toyota actually implement and refine the diesels.
There is an article about "VW to drop 3 diesel models for '07". http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...0708/1002/RSS02 Ken@Japan
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ May 28 2006, 01:30 PM) [snapback]262058[/snapback]</div> Sort of... from the article it states they're building extra '06 Jettas to sell in '07. Clever. And they'll be back and cleaner in 08.
In 2007, new clean diesel comes to the USA, however with it also comes stricter EPA regulation that makes emissions laws same for diesel and petrol. This is an problem, since currently even the cleanest diesel engines (Toyota D-CAT engines are cleanest in the world) can not meet those laws. As to the dude not realizing he had been driving an diesel, wow, thats really something.
