Promoting Prius Prime by misleading about Prius PHV

ignorant articles, written by ignorant people. but hey, at least she was positive in her ignorance.

i wonder if touota still thinks 30k a year, given lift back sales. i know, i know, prime and lift back have nothing in common. still, green is currently a difficult market segment.

 

I agree at least the article was upbeat and giving the car some press. It appears the Gen4 is meeting with some market headwinds. It is not clear if it is the current low gas price situation, growing competition or the car design itself. Time will tell. The Prime version is interesting but it will see similar market headwinds along with the problem of a barely competitive electric range and increased purchase cost.

The Prime PlugIn purchase, at prevailing gas prices, is hard to justify on a cost basis when compared with a standard Prius. It is more of a lifestyle decision. Once you decide on the electric life style, the 11 or even 22 mile range, to me, is insufficient. I want 50 miles or better.

 

agreed. it's an individual decision based on need and desire. i'm surprised toyota didn't offer several battery options.

 

Imagine the FUD when someone writes that the Prime takes 6+ hours to fully charge at 120v.

I'm currently working out a way to fully empty the charge of a hand phaser into the Prime battery in seconds. Problem is that the hand phaser takes another 6 hours to charge, or 2.75 hours at 240v.

 

Glad Toyota finally found a way to speed up those pesky electrons. Imagine 12 amps @120volt taking so long to charge up on PiP. Now somehow Prime is much faster to charge with the same 12 amps. Can perpetual motion be far behind? I'd actually like a slower charge at home overnite.

 

i don't think prime charging is any faster than pip. double the size, double the time?

 

20 miles will work well for many. Covering a good portion of most daily commutes for lower cost, and what should be better packaging of the battery in the car.

That would increase development costs. I don't see anybody incurring that for a PHEV at this point. Those offering a larger battery option now drop the hybrid part for a BEV.

 

not volt, but 50 miles may eventually catch up to them in price. no one is offering it, and no one is selling many. if someone did offer 2-3 levels, it would fit a larger market segment. i have no idea if it could be done profitably at this point though.

 

While my family has owned a variety of Priuses (Prii?) over the years and I currently enjoy our current models, I think Toyota is out of touch with the market (at least in the US). I have now driven the Mirai at 2 events and, while I enjoy driving it, I don't think it will be successful because the EV market is growing and has the industry synergy behind it. It's also expensive and uses a proprietary and limited-scope fueling system. I understand we are in the nascent stages of the alt-fuel era, but it just seems like the market is moving in a unified direction while Toyota remains stubborn in their own vision. Sometimes that can be rewarding and other times it is not; only time will reveal the answers here. However, a new PiP with low EV miles and only 4 seats and no full-EV challenger is not viable in my humble opinion. Look at the new Hyundai Ioniq that is available as a hybrid, plug-in and full EV. Look at the new Volt, Spark and and upcoming Bolt (not to mention the upcoming Tesla Model 3). When the Prius Prime hits the market it will be an uphill battle in the face of competition and the family that sees the 4 seats and says, "I cannot compromise in this one area - I need 5 seats." I think Toyota is too eager to capture the millennial market demographic and is trying to lure them with style first. If I was buying in the next couple of years I would have a hard time choosing the Prius Prime over the many alternatives - and I am a huge fan of Toyota. It seems they are being stubborn and perhaps even a little arrogant - I still don't understand why they don't pursue a full EV vehicle with their battery expertise. Time will tell...

 

Yes, I don't think it is profitable to do so at this point. It might happen in the future. I think, more likely will be making a BEV with some battery choices and a range extender option though.

There was a rumor the gen2 Volt would have had a battery size choice.

I'd say Toyota is pushing style on the Prime more to cover up that they didn't give it their all in trying to minimize the compromises of the battery pack.

The other Japanese car companies will have a FCEV out, at least in Japan, because it is a push by the Japanese government. Building markets outside the home country makes it cheaper to build them for there. But Toyota seems to be the most devoted. The new Clarity FCEV arrives soon from Honda, but they are offering a PHEV and BEV version to sell outside of the limits of the hydrogen network.

The hydrogen refueling standards aren't proprietary, but they haven't settled yet. The first Clarity had 5000psi tanks. The hydrogen stations built then had to be upgraded for 10,000psi that is required for near gasoline refueling speeds. The Mirai actually has tanks for 12,000psi, which Japan is moving too. If California adopts this, they will have to upgrade the stations again. Then there is a method developed that uses a pressurized water prefill for faster tank filling, and the possibility of metal hydride storage for cars.

Then Nissan's FCEV for Japan just ditches the effort of dealing with pure hydrogen, and reforms ethanol for it onboard.

 

What is the implication of 3.3 at home? as I assume many have 15 amp breakers.

 

good question. i thought the numbers were 6 hours on 120v and 3 hours on 240. which is double the pip.
i could be wrong though, it's so hard to go through the prime threads and re find this info. sometimes, it's in the middle of a video, just as a passing reference.

 

thanks john! that's a wee bit better than pip? 2 1/2 hours on 12v and 1 1/4 hours on 240v.

 

I still don't get the economics. At .15/kWh the Prime will cost about $.05 per mile to drive on electricity. That is the same as a standard Prius on $2.50 gas. This does not include the cost of the home wiring changes or the increased cost of the Prius Prime. So....... it is a lifestyle decision unless you get free charging at work.

I have no problem with the idea of liking something and buying it. My test drives with an electric vehicle have been enjoyable. I like gliding in my current Prius. I think Toyota is going to have to push the Prime vehicle price close to the standard Prius to sell them as they did with the first Gen plug in because the "lifestyle" buyers will head to other manufacturers that get it.