When to do 1st oil change?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"87186)</div>

Oil is neither basic or acidic. It takes the prescence of water to create acidity. TBN is a measure of "reserve alkalinity." As sulfates and nitrates are produced (byproducts of combustion), they combine with whatever water might be present in the oil and become acidic. The mild, oil soluble alkaline products that contribute to the TBN are gradually used up as they neutralize the acids.

This is a very simplistic attempt to respond to your incorrect assumption. I'm sure there are others who will read these posts later and elaborate.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"87186)</div>

Dan:

What double-talk?? :roll:

Did you go to the API and look at the test sequences? Did you then go to the ACEA website for comparison and to download the appropriate test sequences? Unlike the API, the ACEA is *very* open and makes these requirements Public Domain.

In the rest of the world, where there is no Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, the auto maker is free to tell you exactly what brand of oil to use or else. In most cases, it's either a *highly* refined conventional motor oil, a semi-synthetic, or a full synthetic.

Oil standards set by the API in North America are rather self serving, as they represent the oil companies with only token representation by engine makers. Naturally, it's good business to keep the standards low and ensure frequent oil changes. It would be Nirvana if everybody changed their oil every 800 miles.

Oil standards set by ACEA in Europe represent input from the engine makers and various governments with little input from oil companies. Thus the ACEA can concentrate on things like long engine life, reduced environmental damage, and reduced resource use.

I think I already covered the oil stability issue. A "Starburst" API oil is allowed to thicken 250% during the test sequence, usually 60-84 hours long, and up to 7.5 litres may be added during the test. The ACEA oil is usually capped at 90% for 200 hours, and the test engineer isn't allowed to add oil during the test.

Remember that modern motors are made *completely* different than old-fashioned motors: the assembly is automated and the materials are different too. So the motors generate *much* less blowby then they used to, so "contamination" is at an absolute minimum.

If I had a '55 Chevy with a motor made to 1955 "standards" I'd probably change the oil in that thing every 2,000 miles. Of course, back then if you got 60,000 miles out of a motor that was considered an achievement.

And the high TBN generally won't "attack" any metals in a modern motor. The only time an additive package might "attack" metals is if you have something like a sulphur-phosphorous additive in a gear oil, and the synchronizer in the transmission is made from bronze/brass.

Gear oils have the opposite problem from motors, so the gear lubes *must* be made somewhat acidic. Hence the use of sulphur and phosphorous additives.

My question is why did Toyota *reduce* the mileage interval almost across the board? Was it to cover their a** from sludge problems? They knew that they couldn't legally require all their drivers to use something like Mobil 1 5W-30 to keep warranty

Some interesting oil comments from industry experts:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...oup=Lubrication

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...oup=Maintenance

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/artic...oup=OilAnalysis

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...oup=Lubrication

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...oup=Lubrication

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...p=Which%20group?

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...up=Lubrication2

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...up=Lubrication2

Jay

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sleeka\";p=\"87205)</div>

What does your owner handbook recommend?

I was under the impression that Toyota Australia recommended either a 10W-30 for VVT motors, or a 20W-50 for other gasolene motors:

http://www.toyota.com.au/psa/articles/0,24...253D707,00.html

 

I think the better milage you get in your regular commute, then the better millage you get using synthetics. It depends on what percentage of work internal resistance with in the engine is of the total work your engine has to do. I would think that synthetic oils would contribute more protection to the engine at the lower temperatures the engine runs at because of its lower viscosity, unless the moter uses an electric oil pump which I am not sure of. Also I think that synthetics would be of benefit to anyone who does a lot of freeway driving where the engine is constantly running becuase the engine is smaller than a conventional engine and would be more susceptable to peak high temperatures. I may be wrong but my thoughts anyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sleeka\";p=\"87205)</div>

BP Lubricants has a site:

http://www.bplubricants.co.uk

And they suggest a wide range of viscosity based on expected ambient temps.

Click on "Recommendations," "Retail," "Cars," "Toyota," and finally scroll down the long list to "Prius (Hybrid Car)."

BP has a primary recommendation of their premium synthetic Visco 7000 in 0W-40 viscosity. They also concur that a 5W-30 is recommended for *most* operating conditions.

They have more conventional choices based on expected ambient temperature:

Temperature Range Viscosity

<-29 C to >38C 5W-30
-18 C to >38 C 10W-30
-12 C to >38 C 15W-40
-7 C to >38 C 20W-50

Again, according to the Toyota Australia site, their primary recommendation for VVT motors like the Prius is their 10W-30, with 20W-50 for all other gasolene motors.

Also, ask what your local service department suggests. They may recommend a heavier or a lighter viscosity depending on what your ambient temps are.

I used to believe in very heavy oils (15W-40, 20W-50, etc) but lately have changed my mind. The newer lighter synthetics (5W-30, 0W-30, 0W-20) are very well made with exceptional stability.

The fuel economy difference, especially running a 0W-30 or 0W-20, is substantial compared to a much heavier oil. Even some HD diesel trucks here have gone from 15W-40 to a special HD 10W-30 to gain fuel economy.

 

I'd recommend examinining your maintenance schedule datasheet. Maintenance varies from country to country.

 

Re: my query regarding oil recommendations for warmer climates. Thanks for the referrals and suggestions. Looks like either 10W-30 or 5W-30 is the preferred option. The choice between mineral or synthetic is (I guess) up to me.
On a separate note, on the great highway wandering debate...we get Michelin Energy tyres on OZ cars, and the sensitivity/wandering is noticable. I am trying different pressures etc to see if I can improve it.
I also had the windows tinted last week, and the installer had the door trims off. Although all switches work up/down, the auto up/down on the driver's window now doesn't work, and the "auto" light in the switch is flashing. Can anyone tell me how to re-program that function again please?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ May 3 2005, 11:41 AM) [snapback]86737[/snapback]</div>

According to Car Talk (aka "Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers") magnetic plugs are "cute, harmless, and unneed". See http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/wheels/247718_talk11.html

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